Usability
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- Eli0
exactly, design doesn't have to accesible, but it should be logical.
If the purpose of Tim's site is to give people access to his portfolio, then the design shouldn't get in the way of the portfolio.
- tymeframe0
Imho, good interactive design should communicate a clear message of what the user is looking, what to do next and how to get there. I agree with what was said before, that complexity of the navigation should be dependent on the target audience.
But, be it an art or personal finance site, I think the user should be able to return to a desired part of the site or project with minimum effort.
- puter0
fate-
Stick a few people in those labs to have a look at you site- see what happens when they wonder why they have to wait 20 minutes for a poster full of jpgs to load- and why there are 2 menus but none are active- and why they need to scroll vertically if they are on a laptop.Stick a bunch of people in a lab and have them set a table properly, or choose a fine wine verses Pepsi or coke-
labs mean nothing- test for rats-
This very own website- Newstoday does not follow usability guidelines- but all the diehards have found their way around it didn't they- just fine- by adapting,,,
- fate0
puter-
1) 20 minutes? whatever. You know that's a lie.
2) 2 menus? LOL, where? There is no menu.
3) This isn't about me. This is about how designers objectively measure good design in order to define it. If you want to deny those measurements, whatever dude. Be a rebel art-fag. But they exist, and they play a very important role in communication on the web.
- DaveId0
I used Joyce as a justification for "inaccessible". i never said"randomness".
for a justification for randomness i would have used Tristan Tzara.
- puter0
No it isn't about you (the menus by the way are part of the jpg- but jpgs shouldn't have menus- might "confuse" the humans)
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It's about proper communication for a given target and enviroment. I am not denying the measurements of good design- I am denying that design is not subjective. That is does follow more than a header, footer, and different color tabs to create an identity especially amoungst an enviroment of billions of related services. I am denying the end all be all of a relately new technology by pre-determining that unless it follows a lab rat system it is has no value. The same lab rats that choose one web concept of another might also choose donuts over a healthy salad- but eating only donuts is not the solution to ones diet.Being an open enviroment that the web and deisgn is encourages stategic thought and concept, a book like Catcher and the Rye and Huckleberry Fin were written out of the suggestions of a straight forward language- but they succeeded but they best communicated the characters of the story.
Communication is about breaking the barriers between a multi populate audience- it isn't always about a one way point of view- that's like saying everyone needs to speak English over French.
There are logical forms of design elements for certain attempts at commiunication but to call one usable and the other not does not make me an rebel art-fag it makes you a nazi.
This is a new world this a new breed of computer users around every corner- a generation that grew up with mp3 players, Playstations, DVD's, and cell phones. An open enviroment filled with zillions of related content and services- I am a designer to help provide an identity to separate "A" from "B" in this jungle- since usability purist like yourself create "A" over and over again you are actually making my job easier.
When I go to a party I rather talk to all walks of life- not just the few who all say the same thing.
- fate0
Puter, I'm far from a purist, but you couldn't even define usability for yourself a few posts back. Your ideals sound nice, but it -- usability -- is about getting a user from point A to point B as clearly and quickly as possible.
Also, I don't think you understand what a usability lab does. If you deny it's abilities to seperate good and bad, you deny every poll, every ratings system, and you rely on "the mantra of me".
Also...
"I am denying that design is not subjective. "Good for you. But good design is not subjective. It doesn't have a 50/50 chance of doing its job.
- puter0
"usability -- is about getting a user from point A to point B as clearly and quickly as possible."
Compare it to a video game-
Sort of like the Atari joystick did with Pacman. But when you only had two buttons, and every game had a maze like pacman with simply a different colored graphic running the maze and a different selling name and vague concept- well what happened to that technology? It advanced- we adapted, and gre into a Moral Combat nation where ALL the best moves were a combination of technics- in this case not even reveled to the user. Did the users cry- I want my Pacman back! No, they, as humans do- grew with the world and those willing to help with the grow created a new standard and a new approach to the same concept-
"If you deny it's abilities to seperate good and bad, you deny every poll, every ratings system, and you rely on "the mantra of me".
If no one denyed it based on surveys- there would be no web as we know it- no cars, no airplanes, no choices amoungst cola- no cable television...
what is good and bad is always subjective. That's what separates us from animals-
If good design was not subjective every element we know of the web today would not have survived pass the original form of the internet as it was intended when it was invented.
Concepts were thrown out there- some surivied some did not most have yet to be delivered. Subjectively the user and developers created what they are interested in on the web and designers communicated that content.
- fate0
I'm not arguing with you anymore, you don't make much sense and your posts are boring to read.
- Visia0
"The interface should educate the user as to how to navigate the content rather than be built to their percieved aptitude/ignorance."
That is the most ignorant thing I've ever heard.
Bad usability == bad design. Point final. The challenge isn't to make something ultra-complex and cool. The challenge is to make something ultra-simple and cool.
If the content dictates that the navigation should be an adventure then fine, but forcing the target audience (yes, every site *has* a target audience) to be "educated" on how to access their online banking is just plain bad design; and FN stupid if you ask me.
If you want to be an artist, then be an artist. But if you really want to be a designer then you need at understand that usability *is* design. They aren't mutually exclusive.
- Eli0
Puter, if you designed a website with a nav that invloved various unrevealed key combinations, no one would bother to figure it out. Except maybe a very few with may too much time.
- clone0
see www.thelifeonearth.com its simple and not much content but the navigation is unique and usability is retained. comments?
- janne0
i believe in usability when there's a strong need for it.
- janne0
i notice how the ones that often criticize usability are often portraying themselves as artists instead of designers.
which is ok and sort of makes sense.
- puter0
I am not protraying myself as an artist- nor would a design a site with hidden features-
I am using the examples that design, whether it be print or web content- does not work like the gas peddle on a car- it works like the remain elements- the shape and form, a subjective way of determining where the other key elements can bt place and how they will function when a user interacts with them.
The gas peddle remains constant- this is the internet-
what's on the internet and how it functions is subjective in terms of the proper way to deliver the content and have the user interact with it.Take Newstoday for example-
According to the views of usability elites-
A user would look for a menu navigation system on the left side or top of the website-not individual sets of menus at the bottom of the page.
iframes are do not work on all versions of browsers so should not be used, plus the content can not be easy indexed this way or printed or referenced alone without know how.
Only visited links should be red- not links that have yet to be visited...
ETC.
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But this website is very functional- it delivers the content and navigation in an original way without taking away from it's purpose. It suggest a first time user expierence it's purpose.It is subjective to determine if this is any worse or better than typical teachings of what is supposedly "usable".
Who determines if this communication work? The focus group? Throw some members here in that focus group and they would tell you that the design would fail- that the site is un managable. Instead we as the target audience adapted to it's form and bookmarked it's content.
So a one direction determination about what is and is not usable becomes subjective to the audience and stepping outside the "box" in this case did not bring down the purpose of this website- if anything it inforced it.
- woodyBatts0
If you want to be an artist, then be an artist. But if you really want to be a designer then you need at understand that usability *is* design. They aren't mutually exclusive.
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how would you explain david carson?
- johndiggity0
keep it simple
keep it intersting
keep the userhow you do it is what we get paid to figure out.
- BonSeff0
lemme break it down for ya'll
- BonSeff0
that's some nitty gritty for yo ass
- fate0
puter, again, you make very little sense and your ignorance is showing. Everyone else, ignore this, it's boring.
Let me, for your sake, explain something to you. Truth is relative. There is no right. There is no wrong. It is all relative. The only way we, as a society, as a message board, can ever come to a conclusion on some truth is to weigh and take into account what the majority feels or wants or acts. It is the only possible way to get a handle on what is "good" and "bad".
This is what a usability lab attempts to do. It shows what people think, however subjectively, and allows an objective opinion to be formed out of this.
I think you are confused on what usability is. You keep referring to a black and white situation, some Neilson-esque site that has no design sense. It's far from that ideal. It is simply making wise decisions in getting users from Point A to Point B, to serve them best by communicating via design. It is not subjective, no matter how bad you want it to be subjective. It never will be. Because once you design for one person or small elite group, you've fucked up. You might as well not even put it on the web. Your faux-critique of Newstoday only underlines your misconceptions on the topic.