web designer & programmer
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- tfsmag0
being creative isn't all you need to be a designer?
it seems like a half assed effort and a cop out to not want to learn all you can about the tools of your trade.
- mrdobolina0
I work with a load of girls who do ad layouts for newspapers/mags. havent learned anything new since college, they are a miserable bunch.
- plizo0
Becareful Mr. Dobalina they will eat you alive in here.... they ripped me a new one...
- Chip0
sorry mrdob, had a lunch break.
My point is really just trying to stress that although it is good to try and learn the tools of your trade, it is not possible to learn them all.
As the old saying goes, "he was jack of all trades and master of none"
So, if your skill is design, don't get bogged down in actionscript or php or server side shite. Leave that to the professionals in their respective trade(s).I used to try and learn everything new when computers took over in typesetting, I would religiously learn all about the next updates in Quark 1.0 and illustrator and ATM etc... but soon I figured that I cannot keep up and when I moved to web design, I knew I had too much to learn in all the technologies that are out there.
I'm not a one man band, I use professionals in all trades.
If you're making a professional website you don't write the copy yourself and take the pictures yourself and code yourself and design yourself.choose your path.
- ribit0
As a website content producer I've probably got a different viewpoint on all of this... We use a few different suppliers to do occasional programming for us...but when it comes to redesigning the site, we need to hire a designer who can give us really good graphic design, usability, and I guess has a clue about all the CSS side of things, as that all impacts both look-and-feel and usability/functionality....BUT we still have someone else who knows the back end stuff of our site well, and we would keep using them. So we would be looking for principally a REALLY good graphic designer, not neccessarily a full all-rounder who can do the whole lot from design to coding reasonably well... Point is... It's often hard to know who to hire with all this crossover of titles and skills, when you don't neccessarily want an all-rounder, you just want the best you can get in a specific area.
To be expected when you compare this industry to traditional publishing... suddenly it is possible for one person to effectively do design, content , production, distribution etc...
- plizo0
I agree with you completely Ribit... but looks like some of these cats think different.. There are studios that hire or freelance out just a designer to do what you just stated.. and yes they need to know about how CSS works, and html... but when it comes down to it, they might not be doing the whole thing just creating the templates... But I already got made a fool out of some of these guys on here...
- nicora20
Plizo, our point is that without a knowlege of HTML and CSS, there is no way to effectivly design a website. Look and feel is important, but useless unless coupled with good layout, navigational structure, accesibility, compatibility and information architecture. A talented print designer can do great mock-ups of a "static" webpage, but how do they know it will translate to the web? They don't, unless they understand the technologies supporting the design.
I'm not saying you have to be an expert HTML/CSS coder, but you certainly need to know how to convert your PSD to an actual website. There are other things to consider than a simple static image, like DHTML, JavaScript... things you can't really add to a PSD template, or at least not effectivly without understanding how it works (or at least a basic understanding).
As advice to "web designers" with no HTML/CSS skills, learn it, you will go a lot further.
- DaveId0
Interesting..
let's see, In order to make sense of this mess let's extract "web" from the equation:
conceptually design and development are entirely different. in most industries they do not tend to overlap much.
I would argue that the scope of the project would dictate where on the generalist-specialist spectrum your labor break-down would be most efficient.
then put "web" back in:
the scopes of a web based projects tend to vary more than in other industries (building houses, brochures, cars, ad campaigns) I think that this is why there are such varying opinions on how the labor should break down.
I see both versions (one-man bands, and rediculously fragmented teams), and my opinion is that it is in management where these issues are best resolved.
I would not hire a "web designer" who didn't know css/html. however, if the project was large (with an adequate budget) i would make absolutely sure i hired both a great designer and a great coder (a tight development schedule would demand that they not be the same person).
by definition a great specialist cannot be a great generalist, and vice versa. both are useful. neither is better.
you could argue about depth vs. breadth forever....
- mitsu0
i think mrdob summed it up with this statement:
"the more you know, the more marketable you are"
the jack of all trades moniker, doesn't necessarily have to mean the master of none or even just one.
- nicora20
I see your point Dave. Good perspective.
I work with Archetics and Engineers and we have CAD Designers. I asked how well they could do there job without a basic knowlege of engineering, it's impossible. They could however use autocad to make a cool design, but it probably wouldn't be functional. Same with Structual, mechanical and civil designers. They are not professional engineers in their respective field, but a basic understanding is essential.
A web designer with no knowlege of HTML/CSS can design a website, but if it's up to me, I'm going to pick the designer that knows why his design works.
- mrdobolina0
no doubt Dave.
Kool Moe Dee said it best "Knowledge is King"
;)
- plizo0
I see what your saying Nicora2 and I agree with you on that a web designer still should know CSS/HTML.. that way they know what can and cant be done in the design they output.. I am not some expert CSS/HTML guy, but when I do design for the web, I know what they can do and what they cant do... which helps in building a template for an HTML coder and backend guy.