Star Wars Episode VII
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- ETM1
I agree the Han and Chewie introduction was terrible.
Lot's of interesting comments in the recent pages I wanted to add my two cents to.
**SPOILERS**
-"...Kylo being Han Solos son. I mean could that have felt anymore forced into the movie?"
Being their son plays back to the expanded universe (canon or not). It also cements the two characters as having a relationship beyond Jedi, and was ultimately the reason they also grew apart. As well it might have further plot benefits in the next movies.
-"He didnt need to be anyones son! He just needed to be a badass henchman for the first order, exactly what Vader was. He was just some guy, he didnt need to have all this other story shit attached to him."
Vader was not a random henchman... he was the protagonist's father after all and linchpin of the entire redemption arc. Kind of ridiculous to call him random in any regard. Even before you knew he was the father, he was "murderer" of the protagonist's father, and former pupil of the protagonist's mentor. Actually plain stupid to call Vader random, IMHO.
-"Why remove the helmet... does JJ know nothing about mysterious villians"
To me Kylo (helmet) and no helmet (Ben) was a visual representation of the conflict of dark and light within him. Even with Vader, his final redemption came to finality unmasked, as a representation of his duality.
-"What was the real threat in this movie? Them blowing up some random planets for no reason at all?"
The reason was clear. They destroyed the home system of the Republic, thus unseating the current government, destroying the secret supporters of the Resistance and creating a power vacuum for the First Order's rise to greater power. It was next trying to destroy the whole system that the Resistance used for its operations. It was clearly explained and I had a 6 year old distracting me.
- nice post
http://49.media.tumb…Bluejam - They established that they had the technology to build the ultimate weapon is a planet destroyer in the Death Star, in the 30 years that passed you could only.._niko
- Assume that they would improve on that weapon. 30 years after hirishima they still built bigger and better nuclear bombs._niko
- I agree, but how does that relate to the post?ETM
- sorry was just waking up when i posted lol, it was in addition to yours, commenting on how people say that a planet killing death star is a re-hash and lazy._niko
- also miss-read what you had written, but yeah I agree 100%_niko
- nice post
- autoflavour0
he does have a point..
- We know. Haven't we covered the idea of the recycled plot points already.ETM
- Sep2
As a kid I was in love with the original trilogy. Saw the new one last weekend. Sure, it has its flaws, but after the prequel trilogy it's hard not to be excited about this movie. Made me feel like a kid again.
My favorite parts (SPOILERS):
- Feels like a tangible universe. The practical effects, the costumes, everything looks gritty and used, no over-the-top alien CGI landscapes.
- It actually MEANS something again when someone activates a lightsaber. In the prequel trilogy those things were fucking everywhere. Literally everyone had one and they whipped it out constantly. (The first minute of The Phantom Menace: a strange sound in the other room? Fushwoon nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn)
- A strong female lead. At the end she can use the force AND is taking off with the Millennium Falcon and Luke's lightsaber. How cool is that...
- Kylo Ren is a villain-in-progress, no fully established bad-ass like Vader was and I think that's interesting. Looking forward to see him develop in the next two movies, along with the heroes.
- Believable characters, whitty dialogue, solid acting, no mindless slapstick aimed at 4-year-olds...This movie is far from perfect but I'm far too happy about everything it does right.
- I do believe there was too much borrowing from the original trilogy, but I'm fairly confident Rian Johnson will take this story to exciting new places.Sep
- The biggest thing missing for me from the movie *was* the lightsabers. They're one of the truly unique things about Star Wars and without them, it's just...MondoMorphic
- ...another sci-fi space movie. The movie didn't get "real" until actual Jedi were dueling.MondoMorphic
- ETM0
There were some small things in the movie that make you wonder about Rey, that could also be nothing.
Han's longing look at Rey when she saw green for the first time. Was it pity or guilt?
When Kylo was informed that Finn and BB8 got away he was mad... but when the officer added the bit about the girl being involved, for some reason Ren goes full batshit. Just the building frustration at the incompetence or does he know (or sense) more?
Rey and Leia hugged at the end, though they never actually met until then. Was it just the mutual connection over the loss of Han. How did they recognize one another? Was that amplified by both being force sensitive? Or was their some deeper unknown or unspoken connection? Maybe just a writing or editing oversight.
- so many questions.. so little information.. welcome to the next 2 years of speculationautoflavour
- Alas some of this confusion and unanswered questions felt more like bad writing than setting up such complexities. The next one is about to shoot sofadein11
- unlikely they will change the script much to address these big holes. However it may be intentional in which case they will of course.fadein11
- Agreed. Given the lack of creativity with the plot overall, I'd chalk this up to poor writing.MondoMorphic
- autoflavour0
- Rip-off of Scott Johnson's original:
http://images.bigcar…ETM
- Rip-off of Scott Johnson's original:
- ETM5
I am not sure why it's a mystery they would literally retread the successful ground A New Hope already tread. They want to setup the series for a new generation of fans, but also please the old. What better way than repackage what already worked? It's the story of the whole movie industry.
Hopefully they'll break out from the mould in the next two, but they needed a familiar, if contrived, launch pad after the doubts cast by the prequels. I don't blame them. A little disappointed, but my 6 year old son enjoyed it and that's who will be their biggest overall consumer, for the next 10+ years.
- agreed.docpoz
- Totally agree.
Though I'm fully expecting "Rey, I am you're brother."jtb26 - *yourjtb26
- Would be kind of cool if Kylo, wiped her mind when he helped slaughter Luke's camp and lied to his master about her death. Complicated feelings and all that.dorkKn1ght
- Better than the "she's lukes kid theory".dorkKn1ght
- +10 to the dokknight theoryAl_dizzle
- I'm not sure anyone suggested it was a mysteryset
- autoflavour1
so here is some nerd level easter egg stuff.. FN2187, Fin's stormtrooper name is in Reference to Cell 2187, the prison cell where Leia is held in A new Hope.. which in turn is George Lucas giving a nod to this Canadian short film from 1962.. which apparently had a profound influence on Lucas..
- autoflavour1
just watched for the second time.. 2 days after the first..
definitely worth the rewatch.. if only for the chance to nerd out on the smaller details you miss the first time.feeling satisfied for now.. might watch it again, maybe at imax with the laser projector.. but for now.. im happy..
also, Jar Jar was the best twist ever
- So you caught Jar-Jar behind the curtain of the Snoke hologram too, eh. Well done. Such a great nod to The Wizard of Oz.ETM
- CygnusZero4-3
Oh, and Kylo being Han Solos son. I mean could that have felt anymore forced into the movie? He didnt need to be anyones son! He just needed to be a badass henchman for the first order, exactly what Vader was. He was just some guy, he didnt need to have all this other story shit attached to him. This story was way overcooked and stuff into a 2 hour long movie. This needed a lot more time in the over and planning to clean this up.
- Man I knew you wouldn't like this movie.inteliboy
- lol you were building it up so much and then hated ityuekit
- Meh it happens. Imdojt understand why its getting such great reviews. It was just ok. 6/10 at best.CygnusZero4
- lolololjtb26
- Vader didn't need to be anyone... oh except the protagonist's father. Are you actually thinking about what you write?ETM
- It didn't feel that forced, and is a hallmark back to the expanded universe events. Also, we don't yet know how it may further play out in the trilogy.ETM
- CygnusZero4-5
WOW. Major Spoilers here.
I have a LOT of problems with this movie. I mean a LOT. I felt Lucas' touch missing from start to finish. It felt way more like Star Trek than Star Wars to me. Felt no presence of the sith or jedi outside of things shoehorned into it.
Snoke is not even close to being as cool as Sidious. They shouldnt have gone with CGI for him. I felt like I was watching Harry Potter every time he was on. Shit, Darth Maul puts him and Kylo Ren to shame.
As soon as Kylo took his helmet off with that gloriously styled hair and perfectly shaven face I did the biggest fucking eyeroll youve ever seen. Totally ridiculous and pulled me out of the character instantly. What the fuck happened to mysterious villains?? I mean does JJ even know why Vader was cool? He was just a masked badass until the very end of the trilogy. Ugh.
I need to see it again, the movie wasnt AWFUL, I liked some aspects of it, but it was very, very rushed, missing a lot of what I liked about Lucas' movies, music was meh. Say what you want about the prequels, the music was absolutely beautiful. Nothing even close to that in this. Story was kinda meh, starkiller base was almost like an afterthought. What was the real threat in this movie? Them blowing up some random planets for no reason at all? Ok I guess.
Others are obviously loving it here which is fine, but that did not feel like a Star Wars movie to me. There was remnants of the last 2 Star Trek movies everywhere. There was SW shit in it, but the feeling of a SW movie wasnt there for me. I really felt the absense of Lucas from start to finish. I wish he had some involvement.
- Ditto.BabySnakes
- Ren's moment with the blaster was pretty dope thoughjaylarson
- +1 for removing the maskjaylarson
- +1 for more lucas involvement. there seemed to be a certain lack of detail. otherwise, i was very entertained.jaylarson
- this was my sentiments exactly... v. disappointed by it in a lot of ways. The pirate gangs were bordering on ludicrously bad.fadein11
- The helmet on and off was likely a reflection of the duality inside him. Conflicted dark and light.ETM
- The "random planets" included the capital of the New Republic, destroying the seat of government and resistance support as well as creating a power vacuum.ETM
- I would take this movie over the prequels every day of the week. TFA had proper acting and mostly reasonable dialogue.ETM
- Milan0
- not sure what's worse, a bunch of grownups cheering for a star wars movie or the guy with the flashMilan
- ^ the guy with the flash.dorf
- a friend of mine had that happen during episode 3tank02
- HOOOTN N HOLLERINnb
- I have been to all sorts of blockbuster movie openings and never had people en masse act like this... clapping, cheering etc.ETM
- inteliboy3
I can't wait to see it again. And I can't wait to see the next one. The last time I felt this way about a blockbuster was Fellowship of the Ring.
Sure it was flawed. Though man, all those stupid comic book movies every one loves and has dominated the "tentpole" arena for the last decade - they are STUPID. And BAD. And really really flawed with huge plot holes, shit boring predictable stories and guys running around wth stupid costumes etc. Yet no one seems to bat an eyelid with those films. Thank fuck Star Wars is back.
- CygnusZero4-5
I really think this movie would have been better without starkiller base. It was shoehorned into this, and since they were dead set on this not being a 3 hour movie, it would have given them more time to let other aspects of the movie breathe, like the actual important conflict at hand.
It felt like Starkiller was only in there to give Poe something to do. It didnt mean anything when it blew up those planets, unlike the Death Star which blew up Leia's home world. That had so much more weight to it than this nonsense.
And if they were going for a weapon, couldnt they come up with something else at least? It HAD to be another Death Star? So silly.
Im still looking forward to 8 and 9 of course, but this movie could have been a LOT better than it is. For as much time and money was spent on this, I expected it to be much more polished than it is.
- I feel like none of this is your opinion, and you pulled it from someone else....Al_dizzle
- ..because I have a hard time believing that I can agree with you on anything.Al_dizzle
- < yep totally agree. Funny as we were the 2 people probably most excited about this film on this thread. Perhaps we expected too much...fadein11
- but then I look at the basic flaws, weak plot and characters and realise nope. We are correct. Seeing it again tomorrow. Hopefully will enjoy it more notfadein11
- expecting another Empire.fadein11
- It's not about the base.jtb26
- "Guise I think it has a weak point. Ok you guys pew pew the weak point and we'll distract them." Sounds like video game stratcannonball1978
- It was a target more than a specific weak point. Took a bit more work than the old death stars (a couple torpedos in a hole or a couple shots to a core)ETM
- cannonball19781
Orphan from desert planet finds themselves pursued by stormtroopers because they are in possession of a droid with a special hologram. They stow away aboard an old space freighter and, under the guidance of an old war veteran, make their way to the rebellion after having retrieved an old hand-fighting weapon. With the help of the rebellion, they confront a conflicted nemesis and then exploit a weakness to blow up a large dangerous celestial object. Cheering on a launch pad.
- exactamundo - I still stand by my original opinion, weak storytelling with so much opportunity not to be. I reckon I could have come up with a better treatmentfadein11
- @fadein11 go on then, write a treatment and post it here
:-)Bluejam - Lol - alas I don't have time this close to Christmas... But trust me it would not include an Emo who gets easily beaten by 2 newbs and would not include yetfadein11
- another Death Star lol. The laziness is strong in this episode.fadein11
- Darth Vader was not conflicted until the very end, though.ETM
- @fadein11 - Kylo should have faired better it's true. But his training is limited and he can't control his emotions. He seems strong with the force...ETM
- ... but has poor control under stress. Demonstrated even in how how tries to swing in the crag of rocks when there is clearly no room.ETM
- And less subtle in his two childish outbursts with his "saber".ETM
- burd-turglar0
the insertion of themes and settings from the original 3 seemed clumsy, the pace was all fucked up and a little disappointed by kylo's actor's performance but over all it was good, recommeded
- after the first 1/2 hour a guy 2 seats down started softly weeping and sniffling and did so for the rest of the film, wanted to put him out of his miseryburd-turglar
- haha are you kidding?!Projectile
- I wish I was kidding. Some weird folks turn up at 10:30pm shows I guessburd-turglar
- we had a group of bros trying to out-bro each other with the most stereotypical blather through the whole movie, broaring whenever a sith came on 'n' shitscarabin
- yea that sounds pretty shitty, i'll take quiet sobbing dude over that nonsense any dayburd-turglar
- But ayo, on another note scarabin, could I get my certification off you, it's only fitting that you do the honorsburd-turglar
- burd-turglar1
i bet anything that supreme leader spork or w/e is actually like 3 feet tall. 1 more gripe though, those rolley poley tentacle dudes were corny as fuck, in fact, that whole intro to han and chewy scene was terrible and was like some shit out of stargate sg1
- < yep. thought the same - he will be incredibly weak and scrawny in real life so Ren will easily kill him when he finally turns good at end of epVIIIIfadein11
- and yep the whole intro to Han + smuggling ship + gangs - was the worst part of the film and could have been so good.fadein11
- It was like a SNL version of it. Han and Chewie enter, the crowd cheers.raf
- Yea, out here we've got showcase deluxes where you can have a few beers and sit in a chair that doesn't kill your ass after two and a half hoursburd-turglar
- In other words, I am going to have to see this again, and in style. Need to further examine the clip where what's her face gets dropped off on not tatooineburd-turglar
- That's just super. Do they actually still have theaters that don't have reclining seats, alcohol, pizza, coffee, fries etc.?ETM
- Yea, 20 bucks a ticket, comes with an appetizer and a single beer and you get waited on or somethingburd-turglar
- fadein11-2
I am still astounded that my friends and I are in such a minority who were so disappointed... Seeing again tomorrow night with my daughter so hopefully will enjoy it more on the 2nd run.
My gripes were not a case of needing to let go and just enjoy it for what it was, they were due to some major flaws in a film that could have been so much better.
Plot - so so weak and rehash of previous film - 3rd Death Star - please!?
Scottish space pirate - wtf? that whole scene is just terrible
Pacing - film needed at least an extra half hour to add suspense and necessary set-up for new trilogy.
Kylo Ren - Darth Emo.
Another desert planet?
Snoke - WTF?
Han Solo SPOILER ALERT - THE scene - lame. One of my favourite cinematic characters of all time and didn't feel a slightest bit of emotion that he died at the hands of his emo son. Not enough background on Han / Leia / Kylo to care a jot.
Chewie got over it v.quickly lol.That aside it also had some great moments.
Just a v.flawed film.
- I totally agree. Watched A New Hope on Saturday and seriously there was so much more imagination, creativity and emotion! The Han Solo bit was just 'oh well'Ianbolton
- It was a funny, action-based sci-fi romp but why didn't I give a shit about hardly any of the characters?Ianbolton
- Still think it's more JJ Abrams style more than anything. Big, brash and bold but lacking any substance.Ianbolton
- I agree fadeinset
- These criticisms are valid, though still loved it. There's SO much to like in this film. SO much was done really really well.inteliboy
- ^ yep there was but I always struggle to like a film a lot if basics like plot, character and pacing are not in order.fadein11
- agree on every point, but im still looking forward to the next one.CygnusZero4
- Agreed on all counts. I hate when a movie with genre masterpiece/mileston... potential falls apart in ways that could've been easily avoided.raf
- forget about all that shit, how did you feel though? emotionally... we can nit pick it to death, your points are all valid but did you feel better about this..._niko
- ...than the last 3? tell me you weren't teary eyed in a few scenes._niko
- Niko bro, was that you crying at Fenway theater last nightburd-turglar
