God's warriors
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- gramme0
dobs, haven't watched zeitgeist yet. I'll have a look and let you know what I think.
- gramme0
"For sure, but we can't all be right."
We cant all be right, but we can all be wrong.I am all for man trying to write scriptures about God, thats a good intention. But when these scriptures start wars and death...its time to put these writings in proper perspective. They were written by men.
ethered
(Aug 25 07, 14:21)ethered, I agree that we can all be wrong. I think all of us are too limited in our abilities and understanding to be capable of crafting Truth. I still believe however that there has been a revealed truth. One reason I believe this is because the Bible out of all other manuscripts considered to be Scripture has not yet been proven historically false. Another reason is because The Bible flies in the face of human conventional wisdom about deity and love and grace. Another reason I believe this is because I have personally witnessed people living out God's word, and when followed with a right spirit, the results of such a life are always wonderful.
It's when people misinterpret the Bible or twist its words to suit their own agenda, as opposed to a Godly agenda, that things go wrong. There is nowhere in Scripture that condones the followers of God to behave as did the Crusaders, Oliver Cromwell, David Koresh, Mohammed (a convicted thief and murderer), Jerry Falwell, the Salem witch-hunters, and the members of the Spanish Inquisition. Nowhere.
The Bible has never started a war. People USE IT to start wars. People use anything that can be twisted to suit their purposes to start wars, or promote any other agenda for that matter.
Sure, let's put these writings into perspective. But first lets put human nature into perspective. Then it becomes apparent that the Bible did not originate ex-nihilo from human imagination.
- Witt0
It's a shame no one has yet learned that belief and reason cannot fight each other in the same ground,
Like logic was born yesterday, and faith didn't take a lot of logic.
- Witt0
Like logic was born yesterday, and faith didn't take a lot of logic.
Witt
(Aug 25 07, 15:13)forgive my clumsiness. I meant:
Like logic wasn't born from a certain faith, and faith didn't take a lot of logic.
- gramme0
Oh I agree with you Witt, I can only go so far in trying to prove the unproveable. Faith by definition is a flying leap, even if it is informed to some extent by experience and logic.
- Antonelli0
Why does it have to be so mysterious? Why isn't god just a part of our everyday lives??? (I'm not talking about YOU praying to him or "feeling" him, but why doesn't he just show himself to us every single day and say "hey guys, what's up? how's everything going down there?, Yup, I am god, i am here, i exist, follow me.")
Sorry, but if there was a god, and if he was AT LEAST a decent god... he would do that. That's the least he could do to set things straight in people's minds and reduced all the conflict in this world.
If THIS is the best an all-powerful, all-knowing force can do - then he doesn't deserve anyone's worship.
- TheBlueOne0
On a sidenote, I just finished reading "Rubicon: The Last Years of the Roman Republic" (by Tom Holland; highly recommended) and it really brought home how much superstition and mystery were used by Eastern religions (everything from Egypt/Syria and east - including judaism) were used to support King systems and how much both the Greeks and Romans found it abhorant - until fear overtook the Republic and the masses gave way to these idiots form the east with apolyptic visions and how merchants and political power grabbers used it to destroy the Roman Republic.
Fast forward to today and it's tha same shit all over again..all the hardwork of the American Revolutionaries to put reason back into government losing out to shallow religious fearmaking...
Doomed to repeat and all that...
- Antonelli0
It's all about wanting to feel noble & such. They're too proud to admit that they're related to apes, and way too afraid to admit they're just an insignificant speck in this universe.
insecurities...
- Brookoioioi0
Its funny that even IDiot poster boy Behe has dropped the "irreducible complexity" argument in favor of "not enough random mutations" (probably due to the evisceration he received from Kennith Miller in Dover) i wonder if his creationist followers realize that Behe accepts as "trivial" the fact that we are African apes, cousins of monkeys, descended from fish?
- gramme0
Why does it have to be so mysterious? Why isn't god just a part of our everyday lives??? (I'm not talking about YOU praying to him or "feeling" him, but why doesn't he just show himself to us every single day and say "hey guys, what's up? how's everything going down there?, Yup, I am god, i am here, i exist, follow me.")
Sorry, but if there was a god, and if he was AT LEAST a decent god... he would do that. That's the least he could do to set things straight in people's minds and reduced all the conflict in this world.
If THIS is the best an all-powerful, all-knowing force can do - then he doesn't deserve anyone's worship.
Antonelli
(Aug 25 07, 17:16)Who are you, me or anyone else to dictate what the content of God's nature should be? Are you intelligent or capable enough to create a God that is bigger than you? I know I sure can't do that. Sure, we can create myths and fairy tales. But we as humans are not capable of dreaming up our Creator. Can a dog comprehend his master? Can an ape in the forests of Africa comprehend the research findings of a Jane Goodeall?
I have said it here before and will say it again for any readers who haven't heard it from me before: neither I nor anyone else created/dreamed up God. As a finite, flawed being who can only exist in one place at one time (albeit with an ability to project myself into the electronic dimension of the internet), I cannot create perfection, or even come close to comprehending it.
I think God wants us to seek him out. He wants people to realize how small and powerless they are so that they will reach out and acknowledge his sovereignty and admit that we are not gods. As imperfect beings, it seems that this is the only way. Much in the same way that one's understanding of joy is deepened by an understanding of sorrow, an appreciation of deity, of salvation is deepened by knowing one's great need.
Why, the logical mind asks next, are we then imperfect? Why has God allowed imperfection into the world? Why can't we have perfect knowledge without the need for pain?
I don't know. Nobody has figured that one out yet, nor do I think anyone will this side of eternity. I do believe however that God has a reason for it all, and that it is a good one. I believe this because I have heard of his acts throughout the millenia. I have seen him speak through humble human beings. I have seen him revealed in the awesome beauty of nature. And I have seen and felt his protection, guidance and (often very tough) love in my own life.
I have personally been saved from the edge of death on many occasions. I have been saved from myself more times than I can count. I have seen prayers answered not as I hoped for, but in ways very different and far more wonderful than I ever would have imagined. I am content to know a little about this God, and to trust my eternal wellbeing in his care. He has held me thus far, and he will carry me home.
Speak for yourself, but this God deserves nothing less than my devoted worship. People criticize him because they don't know him. I did the same for many years.
- mrdobolina0
Sounds like a load of hubbub.
Perfection is a subjective characteristic, tell me something that is perfect...
- mrdobolina0
besides cornbread...
- gramme0
dobs, it sounded like a load of hubbub to me too. For 23 years. And I grew up immersed in it, my dad being a preacher. I was really disillusioned by it all for years.
My limited understanding of perfection as described/revealed in Scripture is all I have to go on...but it is obvious to me that God is a more pure and loving being than I or anyone else. He certainly puts up with a lot more shit than I ever would, if I was the Creator of univers(es).
- gramme0
haha, a warm piece of cornbread with honey is pretty damn good, I'll give you that.
- mrdobolina0
add bacon and jalapenos and that is about as close to perfection as I can see.
What would happen if god didn't "put up with" shit though. hurricanes, aids?
- gramme0
It's all about wanting to feel noble & such. They're too proud to admit that they're related to apes, and way too afraid to admit they're just an insignificant speck in this universe.
insecurities...
Antonelli
(Aug 26 07, 11:31)Where is the pride in admitting that one is eternally, morally helpless and woefully imperfect? I won't deny that many Christians spend more time talking about what they DON'T do than what they proactively DO. This is a damn shame and has fostered to large degree the general understanding of Christians as people who shun pleasure and wouldn't know a good time if it whacked them in the teeth.
I won't admit that I am related to apes, because that would require me to lie to myself. Show me evidence of evolution that isn't riddled with gaps in logic, observation (the keystone of science) and viable, incontrovertibly proven specimens...and I will swing back into the trees scratching my left armpit with the thumb of the same arm.
- mrdobolina0
did you evolve from neanderthals, though? I just dont get the wild disconnect.
- gramme0
add bacon and jalapenos and that is about as close to perfection as I can see.
What would happen if god didn't "put up with" shit though. hurricanes, aids?
mrdobolina
(Aug 26 07, 16:26)I just had a homemade BBQ grilled chicken pizza on naan bread crust, it was so good I almost cried.
As I said before, I don't really know why so many atrocities happen. I know almost anything I say will seem trite and ineffective against such horrors. I tend to think that God is biding his time. Things will change. A lot. Not sure when, nobody knows to be honest. But I don't think a just God would let the world go on in its current state forever.
- mrdobolina0
the world has always been messed up, we just read about it 10 seconds after it happens now.
- gramme0
Wild disconnect? Not sure what you mean. I'm pretty sure I didn't evolve from neanderthals, although my Celtic forebears were known for their pervasive body hair.
Humans are a different species, plain and simple. Our resemblances to apes does not make us their descendants any more than blending in with its surroundings makes a chameleon a tree.