Digital passport

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  • monoboy

    The beauty of the internet is its independence but it has become weaponised by propagandists and anonymity is part of the problem.

    I think it might be time, sadly, to introduce reform. Possibly a digital passport or eIDs to be able to signup and use online tools.

    Half the hateful shit said on here wouldn't have emerged had it been in any way accountable. (I'm guilty of it myself).

    It's been fun, I admit. But when politicians start sharing bullshit made in FSB troll farms as fact to enrage their base into direct action. We've got a real problem on our hands.

    I've had enough. You can call me whatever you want. But at least have the balls to do it to my face.

  • monoboy1

    (That last sentence sounds way more aggressive that it was meant to be).

    Let's have an amnesty first.

  • Nairn2

    Admittedly I skimmed through that, but - you want me to stick my balls in your face?

  • nb2

    I hear you, but anonymity is a necessary part of a free society.

    What good would an eID do when even the US President gets away with troll content, fake news, etc? We're not holding anyone accountable anyway.

    • That's the point surely.monoboy
    • I think we'd lose something and I just don't see how we'd gain anything.nb
    • Accountability.monoboy
    • You won't be able to enforce it entirely, but you could make it law for the bigger players.monoboy
    • It's less important for places like this, but even here, I suspect we've had a few Армия троллей России contributions.monoboy
    • But we don't have accountability now despite the vast majority of people using their real identities on social media, etc.nb
    • How do you know they're real? https://thispersondo…monoboy
    • ok, but you must admit that SOME people who are spreading misinformation are doing it under their own name. Many promote themselves!nb
    • If we aren't currently holding those people accountable, why would adding an eID to everyone else suddenly change that?nb
    • You can if you've verified they're eID on sign-up.monoboy
    • If a troll farm can longer set up fake accounts, you diminish them.monoboy
    • If a user shares a piece of content that's known to be fake and detrimental to public health, you can flag it.monoboy
    • But this is where it gets iffy, I'll admit. Who controls what etc?monoboy
  • Hayzilla2

    I'm all for a digital passports. Trolls, hackers & pussies are the only people who would fear it.

    I mean Google/Facbook know exactly who you are and WTF you are doing anyway.

    Lets make it legit. Total freedom of speech should come with it too. Doesn't matter if you are a anti-vaxxer, flat-earther or Nazi. Freedom of speech under your a real identity. This would probably all need to come under a government issued username/email address.

    God, have I just realised I'm a fascist.

    • That was my fear, it's a facisity. But this is why we can't have nice things.monoboy
    • But I fear half the people sharing this type of shit are doing for attention. With accountability, those that do might even do a little research first.monoboy
    • Damn, how quickly you adopt fascism when presented with a problem. We can do better!nb
    • The other half don't exist.monoboy
    • The anti-vaxxer stuff is case study in itself. It originated in Russia.monoboy
    • Typing too fast. Bad grammar.monoboy
    • Published by a doctor, who was held accountable (somewhat). Didn’t stop the morons from moroningnb
    • I don't think it's fascist but isn't there a basic freedom of expression that you get from being anonymous?yuekit
    • if you forced all people to the passport violently, yeah...fascist. (but no u didnt)eddieScissors
    • "freedom of expression that you get from being anonymous" One of the most terrifying things I've ever read.Hayzilla
    • We do it with driving cars, why not surfing the internet? Imagine every car driver being completely anon.Hayzilla
    • People ARE anonymous though until they do something illegal. Then the cops might pull them over and check their license.yuekit
    • Same as the internet. If you commit a crime, the authorities can almost always figure out who you are by tracking your IP address, location etc.yuekit
    • Actually I just realized no one here really explained what they mean by "internet ID." Is it to be able to look up who posted something behind the scenes?yuekit
    • Or is the idea that your real name would be publicly visible alongside everything you post? Because I think the second one is going way too far -- it would beyuekit
    • the equivalent of forcing people in real life to walk around with name tags.yuekit
  • yuekit2

    I don't see how you would ever implement this technically.

    Also, people on Facebook use their real names and when you see a Facebook comments section it's still a cesspool more often than not.

    The real problem is the media, culture and just basic human nature. It goes way beyond whether you login with your real name or not.

    • It's already underway in Scotland. I think the EU are on it too.monoboy
    • The purpose of the eID is to verify the user rather than directly identify them. Making it very difficult to sing up to things like facebook.monoboy
    • Facebooks last public estimate in 2018 indicated that there are 118m fake accounts.monoboy
    • Govs need to do something as physical passports, driving licenses, tax, National insurance are all going digital anyway.monoboy
    • The downside is, everything you sign up to will be recorded against your name by your Gov.monoboy
    • Yeah, there was a point a few years back I was worried that Google/FB IDs would become de facto identity passports on 3rd party sites.Nairn
    • But are Scotland and EU using this to stop trolling? Or just as a way to verify your identity when for instance you access a government site?yuekit
    • Thankfully that's not, yet at least, come to pass. Not sure I'd be any more comfortable with a government issued equivalent. more likely, much less so.Nairn
    • Both. Two birds scenario.monoboy
    • The EU could make it law for companies that store user data like FB and Twitter to enable eID for signups and logins.monoboy
    • Sturgeon is worried her little secret gets out,.SwordDesign
  • monoboy0

    The real solution is self-moderation but we've quickly developed into this a black and white cancel culture.

    And it's increasingly difficult to tell what's truth and what's fiction.

    During the Trump election campaign, the Russian troll army successful instigated a riot on US soil using fake Facebook content.

    It's become a weapon.

    • They must be absolutely pissing themselves with glee at how effective it's been for them.monoboy
    • And yet very few news outlets and politicians are willing to say it in publicmonoboy
    • The GOP are fully aware but are more than happy to go-along with it. Even double-down.monoboy
    • Are you referring to the current riots as Russian-instigated?e-wo
  • Nairn1

    The problem as I see it is that there's always a way around these things and the people who have most to lose by the deployment of such tech are also the people most likely - and able (!) - to seek out ways around it.

    I prefer the idea of a big stick, post hoc.

    • You'd be the first to get a strongly worded letter in my post-fake internet world.monoboy
    • hehe, i always say to my partner when she's pissed at someone or thing "Damnit, woman - we should write them a letter!".Nairn
    •, *always*. For years now. The joke, such as it is, wore thin back in 2014.Nairn
    • I should add - I fairly frequently write letters to companies - usually food companies - giving them my opinion. I have so many unused apologetic coupons...Nairn
  • CyBrainX0

    There is no chance governments (obviously the jackass in the White House) would use this to his advantage to target dissidents. Free speech is messy sometimes and there's no way around it. We're stuck with Robo.

    • lol. The price of freedom is robo and deathboyyuekit
    • The incitement of violence has become mainstream and it worries me. And how easy it is to do.monoboy
    • ^ I agree. Violence is going to be worse, at least for a while but there are even worse things that can happen limiting access to social media. Look at China.CyBrainX
  • grafician2


    This will surely accentuate the problems even more, without offering nothing of value going forward.

    Internet should always be free speech and anonymous.

    You can (self) moderate content, there are lots of ways technically speaking. But putting more limits on this mostly free medium is hurting real ppl irl.

  • hans_glib6

    i'm absolutely against this sort of creeping authoritarianism. it's always presented as being for our own good, but it never is.

    what happens when the computer has a glitch and assigns some incorrect info against your profile? the morons on the other end of the terminal always believe what's on the screen and getting them to see different is impossible.

    i still remember (and cite) the example of being sent a termination account for electricity, and ringing the electric co to ask what it was all about. "you've been cut off" said the tired voice at the end of the phone. "no i haven't i'm sitting here with the lights and computers on". yes you have, my screen is telling me you have. you need to pay up or we'll come after you in the courts"... etc etc

    or the time i was refused life insurance because my medical records had got mixed up with someone else's and the life insurance co saw that i was suffering from alcoholic psychosis, or something equally serious. it took a week of endless calls to various bodies to get that put right, such is the power of the machine and the operator's belief in it.

    slowly but surely all the state apparatus is being put in place to facilitate a dictatorship if it ever emerged (please god let it not) in the uk. this shit is insidious and the less we have the better.

    if you don't like the shit on the internet then get off it, or at least the larier sides of it. for instance i never look at the "nsfw" thread... i don't want that kind of shit in my head. i don't mind it being there, i just want no part of it.

    • Fair point. Brazil is one of my favourite films.monoboy
    • But we need a more robust response to this shit. It's out of control.monoboy
    • *bones nod.gif

      Well said, hans.
    • @monoboy - the "robust response" must come from within you. stop believing and/or being offended by shit on t'internet. in other words use your common sense.hans_glib
    • It's not an issue for me. I'm more worried about people that turn up to pizzerias with shotguns.monoboy
    • It's crossing into politics in way that's become very dangerous.monoboy
    • There's probably a leaderboard ranking in the FSB for the most outlandish shit you can get a dumbfuck to do on US soil.monoboy
    • <wibble>FakeNooze</wibble>monoboy
    • And UK soil for that matter.monoboy
    • @hans - but what about troll-farmed content that isn't outright offensive, but is persuadingly just off enough to rock the boat?Nairn
    • what about it? if you treat anything in the media, social or old school, as gospel then good luck to you.hans_glib
    • Ok, you're a smart guy so you know that difference. What about the 98%?
      You know, the sort who voted Brexit for reasons entirely detrimental to them?
    • People do though hans. That's the problem.monoboy
    • so we (the so-called "enlightened ones") must become the thought police, ensuring that the 98% right-think? fucking listen to yourselves.hans_glib
    • eh? the problem we have here is that we have absolutely no precedence for an environment which is so ruthlessly-efficent at disseminating memesNairn
    • (like, proper memes, not fucking cats). I'm totally with you about not being authoritarian about others consumption, but... you do see the danger here?Nairn
    • i literally don't have the first fucking clue about what a good response to all this is.
      But it's clearly something that is moulding our times.
    • All this does is add accountability. Making self-modification more likely. And it gives a right to reply for the illegal stuff.monoboy
    • It's not about censorship.monoboy
  • Bennn0

    I agree monoboy, the toxic environment of the Internet has reached a point where it snuck into politics and into people's life and it affect lots of things/persons. Internet had changed our lifes in good and bad ways.

    • Myeah, identification won't magically clean up human nature.Nairn
    • just complicates something what should be dead simple.sted
  • Nairn0

    Don't they do this - or something like it - in Germany?

    Anyone from there able to chime in?

    I know ('know') you need ID to buy SIMs in Germany, and a lot more countries besides (you don't need to here in the UK).

    • The have some of the strictest personal data laws in the EU.monoboy
  • Nairn0

    Twitter's 'verified user' model seems like a fair compromise.

    Where QBN is concerned, I'd simply like a way to hush certain users - a feature I'm fairly sure we had in the old NT days, no?

    I'm all for people doing what they do, I'd just quite like a way to filter it on occasion so I don't get distracted. This is kind of where I was coming from with my Deathboy thread recently - he'd likely not be so irksome if people weren't forced to see his schpiels and feel compelled to respond. It's easy to say 'don't feed the troll' - i've said and done as much many times. But then sometimes we slip and the troll has a crumb to sustain him (it's pretty much always a him).

    • It's like robo - robo is often trolly, but he's often not, so I'd not filter him. Some of these new troll-first pseuds that *might* also be him? Insta-Nix.Nairn
  • ben_1

    I definitely don't disagree with accountability, I think it's up to the platforms themselves to demand its use on their own sites. Whether a news site in the comments section, an online forum, etc. Companies and media outlets that want transparency & accountability could really benefit from it and it could be a compelling seal of authenticity for those sites. Sure, share misinformation, but it will be under your name, not some pseudonym.

    If it were mandated by gov't or proposed as a new law to access the internet we'd run into many issues of privacy and access based on proof of identity or lack of it. People have varied access to even proof of their identification, but they can go to an internet cafe to check the news, so gating people like that from it seems dangerous.

    I don't think in the end it would serve to homogenize or impact free speech. Just bring accountability to what people say. And you're totally right, a good portion of the shit that's posted in threads here wouldn't have been if it could be attributed to the person who wrote it without having to dox them like some creep.

    • +1 "I think it's up to the platforms themselves to demand its use on their own sites"Nairn
    • It wouldn't restrict access to content, only the ability to add content anonymously.monoboy
    • /\ I agree with that entirely, I think if Gov's were to implement it, that's where it would inevitably go.ben_
  • Nairn1

    The problem with accountability - at least user/publicly-viewable accountability - is that which we've seen right here on QBN/NT over the years. That trust that is given is open to abuse.

    If I do a quick user scan of people who've here responded, most of us are essentially anonymous. It wasn't always like this. In the very old NT days, I'd spent a lot of time finding new websites - portfolios and work and such - directly from people's profiles. We were trusting.

    Sometimes that trust was abused - I was once a victim of that here, so I nixed most of my personal details and asked a mod (Version3) to delete the post that caused me problems, all because some anonymous cunt on here decided to merge realities and fuck with me IRL.

    It annoys me that it is so. There's a few of you here who know exactly who I am in real life, and I wish everyone else could too, should they wish.. but I'm not opening myself up to some limp cunt who's got nothing better to do one day than masturbate, get giddy on too much mountain dew and then phone my employer and fuck with my life (that's not hat happened in my case, but essentially the same level of cuntery).

    • Actually, sorry - that is exactly what happened in my case. 'Employer' being 'client' tho.Nairn
    • I took my personal information down for the same reasons, employer got a "discrete call about shit I'd been talking on the company". My bad but I've never notben_
    • stood behind what I say and thought this was a reasonably safe place. At the time it kind of was.ben_
  • monoboy1

    Another possible issue is how attitudes change and develop with age and experience.

    If you don't look back on what you said a decade ago and cringe, you haven't grown as a person.

    So judgment can be very harsh. But we're here already with that.

    • Fuck, I look back on what I said five minutes ago and cringe.

      This response is making me cringe.
    • If any of the nippy shit said on here was done face-to-face we'd be taking chunks out of each other.monoboy
    • tbf, i'm also a twat irl.Nairn
    • Here's a thought, what if some future technology is about to retroactively go back and figure out all of your past online accounts and tie them to you?yuekit
    • It's quite possible haha. So yeah, be carefulyuekit
    • Interesting, I always thought about the eID much less of a repository of your online actions that anyone can access, and more of just an accountability checkben_
    • if one starts on with hate speech, or spreading false information. Not a moral credit bureau.ben_
    • Yes. A lot of people will 'get cancelled' in that scenario.monoboy
    • Very black mirror.monoboy
  • Maaku1

    Do you signup with the same username and play video games with the same nickname, always? I doubt it.

    • I do. psn and switch and steam. maybe that's dumb?ben_
    • You can have any username you want but your account will be linked to you via the eID.monoboy
    • Which anybody could check.monoboy
    • It's easy to track people anyway. The real benefit here is it'll make people think twice about shitposting.monoboy
  • monoboy1

    "There is a difference between being a platform that facilitates public discourse and one that peddles incendiary, race-baiting innuendo guised as political speech for profit...You should decide which side you are on."…

  • shapesalad2

    The whole internet needs resetting back to how it was around 2003 ~ 2008. The days of ‘Links’ pages on portfolio websites. I miss those days. I found so many great designer and illustrator websites through the ‘Links’ pages on other sites.

    • And there was no social media BS. No mindless YouTube. Or Spotify. Just simple websites and porn more akin to top shelf porn magazines of the 90s.shapesalad
    • Start a Digital Amish Farmnb
    • Twitter was pretty good till about 2009. Was fun and interesting and social... Then it all changed.webazoot
  • Fax_Benson0

    What colour will they be?