Client from hell

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  • Miguex

    Hey guys!

    So I have this guy that made me work on a project for over 2 months, he kept changing direction and tried to make him happy above and beyond my capabilities. He kept changing direction and giving me more revisions, he approved the project on an email and the next day he again said " I have a small, easy minor revision". I then said yes no problem but at this point I need to see the payment for the work so far.

    We went on and off for 12 days over the phone and last night he sent me an email saying that he never agreed to pay anything for the project (although money was discussed over email and even increased the price for +300 on top of the original amount. He now states that he never liked the project and he is not going to use it so he won't pay for it.

    He also went from telling me over the phone how much of an amazing designer I was, when I started asking for money to see if I can comply with more revisions on the project, on the email last night he said I'm an amateurish designer at best and there was no chance I can complete his vision.

    We have no contract because I assumed it was going to be a simple project, its a little animated logo sting. But ended up being a nightmare. I assume the fault of not charging 1/2 upfront (I don't know what I was thinking).

    Now, I feel like I'm powerless and my only option is to bring the entire situation public. Set up a site with all the comps and renders done (I usually keep a pretty organize "private project page" so all I have to do is add the emails connecting the steps of the project.

    What do you guys think?

  • monNom0

    If you have an email discussing money, and he agreed to it, or at least kept pursuing the arrangement, you've got an open and shut case. Get your documentation together, then politely remind him that he agreed to a price, that this project has taken up a lot of your time, and if you do not receive payment from him now, you will receive payment and court costs from him later when you go to small claims court.

  • cbass990

    Miguex, you're way too talented to be in this situation. I wish you the best of luck and hope you get your money...

    Guess this proves, no matter how small the job, do a contract...I've been fucked like this before too.

    • man, this sucks so much, he sent me this email last night that kept me up all night, I can't get it out my headMiguex
    • how many hours did you spend?cbass99
    • I'm a friendly guy and I always try to exceed expectations, I deliver extra files and stuff, I'm not a confrontation guy at allMiguex
    • this is stressing me out, I can't believe this guy just flat out wants to pretend I agree to work for freeMiguex
  • Miguex0

    I have emails going out stating the price, but he never wrote back saying OK. We discussed over the phone and we continue moving the project forward.

    He also told me over the phone that he has been employing other designers in the past and that to him is normal to do a kill fee project because he has a hard time finding people that can pull his vision. He said it's normal in our industry (music). Which I think it crap.

    Anyone here has experience with small claims court?
    I'm trying to find a lawyer that can advise me on this before I decide to do it, I know I'm on the right and the middle man that connected me and the client is on my side, and thinks this guy is a scammer.

    I'm just worried that I'm going to jump on to this and it will lead nowhere, I have zero experience in court, but I feel more comfortable just doing a press kit/ open letter exposing the project.

    To get more attention, I'm even considering releasing all the source files for free for anyone that wants to use them. I want as many eyes on this as possible, but I need to keep it as objective as I can. No insults, no name calling, just email screengrabs and work process.

    • Is this person an artist or someone known within the music industry?ukit2
    • its the vp of a pretty well known indie label. I never heard of him before, but we have lots of people in commonMiguex
    • dunno about source files... then he could claim you've given it to someone else so why should he payProjectile
  • lowimpakt0

    awful situation and the client is a dick.

    i'm sure someone here has legal experience or at least rewatch "fuck you pay me"

  • dyspl0

    "Miguex, you're way too talented to be in this situation."
    ^this

    not that helpful, but if you want to release the pressure and have a drink, let me know :)

    • actually that might solve all my problems hahaha thanks manMiguex
  • noneck0

    How much money does the client owe?

    Small claims court exists for the lay person to argue their case, so it can be a good avenue for you to recoup money, but it's going to take some work (getting a judgement in your favour, then enforcing the judgement). You'll have to weigh out how much trouble it's worth to you.

    • the total of the project was only $1500Miguex
    • $1500 bucks is a lot. Small claims court is for stuff just like that. I dont believe in suing everyone but sometimes people suck and need to be taught a lesson.lemmy_k
  • qoob0

    Is there a site for shaming clients? Kind of like youthoughtwewouldntnotice.com but for asshole clients?

  • noneck0

    "Miguex, you're way too talented to be in this situation."

    *Checks portfolio.*

    Yup.

    • haha thank man, that is completely irrelevant though, the guy is trying to steal my money on something he agreed on payingMiguex
    • to pay thoughMiguex
  • pressplay0

    shit situation, been there. I cannot give you legal advice but I think publicly shaming the client (setting up a website about the case etc.) causes even more work for you, it won’t get you the money plus it might even harm your own reputation or might make you look bad if this goes into court. better settle this discreetly.

  • Miguex0

    At this point, it's not even about the money for me. I have even considered as a last option to call a collection agency and let them keep the entire money, I just want him to pay up.

    The middle guy in between the client an me, feels so bad that offered to pay me for putting me on this spot, and I really appreciated the offer but its not his responsibility. The guy would get away without paying and that is depressing. So I said no.

  • noneck0

    If it were me, I'd walk away and mark it down as another lesson in avoiding shitty clients. Chasing down that $1500 will really quickly start to feel like way too much work.

  • prophetone0

    yeah, sounds like you're dealing with a vampire.

    imo politely tell him ok we're done here and move on. you will get a few things from this, a weight off your shoulders right away, shifting your focus to the next proper project/client and maybe the guy will come crawling back and just pay up full amount, etc. who knows.

  • monospaced0

    Going public with the files and story doesn't sound like a good first step at all.

  • yurimon0

    IF you have an email record its enough. Just need to handle as professional as possible and collect. do the process and if it ends up in court so be it.

  • capn_ron0

    is it possible to find a lawyer who will write a letter on your behalf or even just let you use their letterhead to write a letter asking for payment to scare them a little?

    Sorry to hear this man. I hate that people don't fucking pay up and then act like it is your fault. Good lesson in contracts for even little jobs (even though i myself have fallen to this a few times and need to listen to my own advice)

  • SigDesign0

    Use an invoicing software like Harvest (if you don't already), and set up the invoice to auto-email weekly (or daily if you want to be really annoying).

    I don't see any issues with releasing the files to the public, since he doesn't want to use them, didn't pay for them, and you didn't sign any contract. But, I would wait till you know for certain that you're not getting any money.

  • omg0

    Resell the work to someone else.

  • Miguex0

    Thanks for the encouragement fellas!
    I spoke to a buddy and he said the best thing is to call a collection agency, they know how to deal with people like this, they keep 40% of the money but they will harass the shit out of him till he pays up, and I keep my hands clean, I can go to sleep happy and in a couple of months I will get a check from the collection agency to me.

    Like I said, its not about the money anymore, and I would love to practice modeling in c4d and recreate his head in 3D so I can mess it up in any possible way, but I will be lowering myself to his 'dickness' level.

    • YES! Good. Collection agencies worked for me.e-wo
  • isakosmo0

    Hey, sorry to hear this dude, I am having similar trouble with a client who is refusing to pay me the last 1.5K he owes me and, like you, the deviousness of the guy angers me even more than the fact I've worked for free for someone like him.

    I am curious about the collection agency you mention - is this a US-specific service? Would be interested to hear how you get on with that. Keep us posted on here please.

  • Fax_Benson1

    Have only used small claims court in the UK but I found that filing an action and sending the client the court procedure and dates was enough to get them to pay up straight away - after months of avoidance previously.

    You can raise the action without following through. The court will encourage you to settle before the date anyway. The small fee it costs to file the claim is worth it in order to show this guy you're serious.

    • going public will likely fuck your legal standing and harm your reputation.Fax_Benson
    • how much is the court fee in the UK?
      isakosmo
    • depends on the amount in dispute. I paid £60 for a claim of around 1kFax_Benson