Global Economy
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- JSK0
"JSK, gold not a hedge? Because it's at a high? What about paper gold?...Swiss Francs??"
Swiss francs is sliding today as appetite for risk is gaining and yes it has been treated as hedge. Gold and slv have been for a while as a speculative commodities for a while. Note the rise is INDU / SP500 and rise in commodities. If it was a hedge, it would be going in opposite direction. There is a tipping point where divergence happen. Lately, there is a divergence as more investors are getting confident about the market.
If you want to have hedge and have ability to move your capital, I would suggest looking in to inverse derivatives or treasury ETFs to balance things out.
- Cheers for the tips...financial education needed...SteveZissou
- careful with inverse derivatives, you can get burned very quickly but make a lot at the same time.JSK
- TheBlueOne0
@deathboy You seem disgusted by the modern "left - right" axis, yet you continue to frame your posts in that paradigm. DO some research brother. Start at the beginning of classical economics - After reading Adam Smith please move on to Ricardo:
Then:
Then move on to:
i would also suggest Polyani for a take outside the usual modern capitalist/socialism clusterfuck:
Also some Hayek and Karl Popper is probably in order. Samuel Huntington's earlier work as well. I would also spend some time reading scholarly works on the Iranian revolution, some of the latin American revolutions of the mid 20th century. Also read up on the Italian fascists of the early 20th so you can see the intellectual origins of that third mix in the 20th century idealism blowout.
- its funny i find sometimes a great notion so much better than all those books.deathboy
- these books just arent that good. i liek hayek since he's against controlling marketsdeathboy
- or at least thats my impression.deathboy
- i frame them so not to get into the your left youre right. tke them out by identificationdeathboy
- raf0
Gold trading is now banned. In Vietnam.
Meanwhile in the US... http://www.100forexbrokers.com/g…
- kingkong0
read this:
An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations, generally referred to by its shortened title The Wealth of Nations, is the magnum opus of the Scottish economist and moral philosopher Adam Smith. First published in 1776, it is a reflection on economics at the beginning of the Industrial Revolution and argues that free market economies are more productive and beneficial to their societies. The book is a seminal work in classical economics.
- <-this is a startTheBlueOne
- 1776. not what im looking for. More a direct study maybe 10 years old. that covers all types of economysdeathboy
- from village to city, in all kids of nations with different social structures and beliefsdeathboy
- then try to quanitfy a government level of power/the wealth disparity/ education/ and maybe some social notesdeathboy
- see if disparity is higher in authoritive governments, if its more spread out in smaller governements. complete objectivity and datadeathboy
- objective data and numbers. I dont know if soemthign of that size and with real objectivity existsdeathboy
- and i already agree a lot with what i know of adam smith.deathboy
- deathboy0
I wonder if there has ever been a study done on wealth disparity and power of government. Disparity is a natural state but it does seem a bit perverse these days. I blame the ones in power and those officials that lack all integrity and continue to use there personal greed to over extend their power through majority rule with elections by applying their own wealth distribution models that garner their votes. Oh and of course the mobs integrity in allowing such things by accpeting the handouts and choosing their own justification that it is ok to steal from the rich becuase theyre stealing from us by buying gov, continuing this endless charade. The mob is so dumb witted that it doesnt understand it holds much more power than money. If it really understood. However theyre so punch drunk with right vs left, rich vs poor, all they can do is play the game that fucks them and everyone else. Really need to stop following judas cow and get some individual thought. See things from multiple perspectives and not solely the ones the tv tells you to look at based on your ID/beliefs. Have u ever noticed the politicians never explain and say come to your own conclusion on this info or question it. All they do is lead with massive hyperbole and party rhetoric.
And what is more crazy is if party rhetoric followed a philosophy it would make more sense. But both hedge the bets by mixing and ignoring philosophy of each party. Liberals are for individual decisions liek gay marriage and abortion. Hell liberal is derived from the word freedom, which can only be obtained individually. And yet all there social platform is based on collectivism. Conservatives spout belief in free markets, freedom and constitutional ways, yet are highly religious, generally speaking, and try to block people individuals rights that go against their belief structure. And their belief structure is is mainly collectivism based on popular religion. Theyre one in the same. dumb fucking power mongering cocksuckers. Both dont want you to think or question with rational thought. They just want u too choose a side. Either way they win. The politics is just smoke screen for the real show. The individual deals and rules being made and the game being played to keep the smart on both sides in the money. Dont vote, just start to read more. Get some non gov sponsored edu and rhetoric in your system. Read about what u dont like. Assimilate it and think about it. U dont have to have an opinion or need to decide if you dont understand. You dont need to choose a side. Just read and think and learn first. Dont accept things peopel say with a degree or position. That has nothing to do with truth. Perhaps theyre right, but find it out on your own and through your own merit.
That is the captain wow rule of thumb that no one seems to use since its so much easier being spoon fed these days. Fuck there is another rule. If its so goddamn easy u best question it. Or the saying if a deal is too good to be true its probably not a good deal. Shits organic and for everything gained u gotta give something.
- This is what drives me nuts about you. Even your first sentence...TheBlueOne
- "e has ever been a study done on wealth disparity and power of government. "TheBlueOne
- Seriously? Jesus brother..you run your mouth with zero researchTheBlueOne
- Having an MA in the field I can tell you their a huge huge body of work out there about it in the modern eraTheBlueOne
- besides WTF do you think Adam Smith, Riccardo and Marx were writing about?TheBlueOne
- You talk so much garbage and zero education. And learn to use fucking capital lettersTheBlueOne
- I hate this fucking thread and you mouthbreathersTheBlueOne
- And why do you start out with "Disparity is a natural state". That's quite an assumption...TheBlueOne
- ...what are you basing that on other than your feelings. Data please.TheBlueOne
- Your entire first paragraph is a bunch of baseless commentary and strawmenTheBlueOne
- probably a study. but also probably not. i looked and couldnt find anything.deathboy
- disparity is natural. from talent, to looks, wealth, to sea and desert. if everythign was at a balance nothign would movedeathboy
- And the rest was me ranting on what i know and the hypocrisy thats ridiculous.deathboy
- that bugs you well deal with it where was my strawmen by the way?deathboy
- If you had somethign to bug me it would be how u say soemthig is worng without explanation. no examples. how am i suppose to verify your claimdeathboy
- am i suppose to verify your claim? do u expect me to take you serious if u just naysay?deathboy
- but eh if not your a funny little guy with a bad temper and daddy issues or soemthing.deathboy
- Miesfan0
How Much Would It Cost To Buy Congress Back From Special Interests? (June 30, 2011) by Charles Hugh Smith.
Here's a thought: let's buy our Congress back from the special interests who now own it.
We all know special interests own the U.S. Congress and the Federal machinery of governance (i.e. regulatory capture). How much would it cost the American citizenry to buy back their Congress? The goal in buying our Congress back from the banking cartel et al. would not be to compete with the special interests for congressional favors--it would be to elect a Congress which would eradicate their power and influence altogether.A tall order, perhaps, but certainly not impossible, if we're willing to spend the money to not just match special interest contributions to campaigns but steamroll them.
A seat in the U.S. Senate is a pricey little lever of power, so we better be ready to spend $50 million per seat. Seats in smaller states will be less, but seats in the big states will cost more, but this is a pretty good average.
That's $5 billion to buy the Senate. ->
http://www.oftwominds.com/blogju…- what we need is an uprising just like we're seeing in the arab world.dorf
- You mean with all the islamic extremiest muslim brotherhood takeover?VikingKingEleven
- Weird comment.VikingKingEleven
- @ DortVikingKingEleven
- First is said is was freedom in the middle east...VikingKingEleven
- now its the M BRO HOOD
http://www.google.co…VikingKingEleven
- georgesIII0
don't worry your congress and senate will save you by making laws to tax the banks!!
....there are 237 millionaires serving in Congress, according to 2008 figures. ...
- oooh shit...The richest member of Congress is Republican California Rep. Darrell Issa, whose net worth is estimated to be in excess of $250 million. He's followed by four Democrats: California's Jane Harman (approx. $245 million), Wisconsin's Herb Kohl (approx. $215 million), Virginia's Mark Warner (approx. $210 million) and Massachusetts' John Kerry (approx. $209 million). ....
- it will trickle down no worries
- TheBlueOne0
What's different this time around is the speed of wealth transfers from anywhere to anywhere globally beyond the reach of any single nation state and the utter lack of mobility of labor. Capitalism is all mere speculation now and nothing to do with producing products of value. But go ahead and defend it if you must, but if you're not playing with speculators money then you really aren't in the system. A lesson all these tea party peeps in the US don't seem to grasp.
- and the political power that stateless money now has in each country. Finance is literally out of control and wrapping us..mikotondria3
- ..all up within it's self-perpetuating tentacles. Politics was designed to buffer the endless power of the rich, and...mikotondria3
- ..now that buffer has gone, and money has starting making the rules about how we behave toward each other and it.mikotondria3
- Politics wasnt designed to buffer rich. Speakign of a republic at least. it was designed to protect individual rightsdeathboy
- rights.deathboy
- you are oblivious to the concept of structural violence, aren't you deathboy. Read some classic Huntington and Tedd Gurr for example.TheBlueOne
- I however don't believe politics is "designed" it's biologically innate. We're primates. Social positioning is what we doTheBlueOne
- political systems are merely tools, and it's silly to pledge loyalty to one over another...TheBlueOne
- ..it's all context and end-state target dependentTheBlueOne
- There's nothing inherently better or worse between capitalism, socialism, etc...TheBlueOne
- depends on the aims of a given society in relation to it's neighbors and own internal idealsTheBlueOne
- SteveZissou0
Mikotondria3, I'm with you on the bread and water...now, before the rfid chips...
It looks like there could well be another round of Quantitative Easing here in the UK.
JSK, gold not a hedge? Because it's at a high? What about paper gold?...Swiss Francs??
- JSK0
This has been going on for years. This is not new.
If equalization of wealth was to exist, there would be no motivation for success.
- Would love to see sports if everyone had a equal right to play.deathboy
- sports is a shitty metaphor. war is better.TheBlueOne
- i was thinkign of wealth as talent. it can be earned through training or inherited as natural talentdeathboy
- I may want to play NBA but lack either inherited or earned skill. So i bitch and moan about equality to play.deathboy
- its a sound metaphor. there may be better thoughdeathboy
- what was the metaphor with war? thinking mayne motvation to survive and conquer but no call for equal distributiondeathboy
- mikotondria30
My rant is more to do with the transfer of value. The richest people have got richer during this recession. The govt is trillions of dollars short on what it needs, tax cuts have left a huge hole in the budget, and everyone else is expected to either suffer cuts in services (for which they have paid). The collapse precipitated by deregulating financial instruments like derivatives was political negligence, as was the tax cuts for the rich that have ground our faces into the dirt and leave us on the brink of who-knows-what. Meanwhile, those people who benefited from the tax cuts are also those who benefited from the collapse.
There has been a massive transfer of wealth upward, and I for one will eat bread and drink water and live without electricity if it meant that it would bring those fuckers down too. I'd eat shit and live in a burning, lawless urban dystopia if it meant that there wasn't an orchestrated band of cunts scheming and benefiting from my misery.- but is it wrong if they game the system, and do it legally?deathboy
- it depends if you believe it's ethical to act politically and create a system that 'transfers value without permission.'.mikotondria3
- (otherwise known as stealing. Is legalised theft wrong ? )mikotondria3
- askign about solely the legal part. ethical is outside law. If we live by law than it seem justdeathboy
- personally i prefer to act ethically. ethics based in philosophy and not gov law. why i blame gov more thandeathboy
- the men gaming the system that society tells them they must follow by laws and rule of govdeathboy
- peopel question the men and actions and not the values and law of society that set there path by ability and ambitiondeathboy
- id suggest instead of blaming the man gaming the system. blame the system. ignore rich or poor but methods enabling disparitydeathboy
- the disparity. if a man uses gov to his advantage is it more his fault or the gov. who should have more integritydeathboy
- i like to think of greedy corp guy as a child and gov as the parent. The gov needs to say no.deathboy
- JSK0
mikotondria3
Look at devaluation of currency in larger countries or even smaller countries. Russia triggered massive economic down turn. Asian financial crisis did the same.
They were both bailed out by the western countries. Now that the western countries are in the down, there really is no one willing to help. China is just hoarding for themselves (gold, natural resources etc).
Devaluing currency is fine for short term but long term, the devaluation can take an accelerated pace.
The US is playing the same game as what the big banks did. "Too big to fail". US feels that if they fail, the global economy will pretty much fail and it has been failing. China will lose it's biggest export partner.
- JSK0
You are wrong.
People buying and selling makes the economy go around. You get a job from that. There is no us and them. Its all interconnected.
Ideally, we would let the market forces decide who survives but the hardship would be too great that we would not survive.
- Bought many US treasury bonds lately then, us ?
mikotondria3 - I do hold treasuries. Bought some about 2 months ago. And selling now as the current market recoversJSK
- Also hold inverse leveraged ETFs and dev market funds.JSK
- btw i was replying to the guy above you.JSK
- Also buy municipal bonds for tax free income.JSK
- *yes :)mikotondria3
- Bought many US treasury bonds lately then, us ?
- mikotondria30
Oh!! The debt, the debt !!
Debt is not a measure of value, it is measure of who has something and who does not.
If I have a million dollars in the bank, the bank owes me a million dollars. If the world has borrowed 50 trillion dollars, and is 50 trillion dollars in debt, then someone somewhere is 50 trillion dollars up (even if they are nervous about getting it back). None of the value is created or destroyed... is it possible that everyone in the world could be drowned by debt ? No - the richest 1% of the world have amassed the value created in the last 50 years at 1000 times the rate everyone else has, and suddenly we're all up to our eyes in debt. To them ?
Default on a mass scale. Anyone who owns more than 100million dollars is subject to a one-time pay-to-play fee leaving them with only 100million dollars. They need to understand that amassing wealth cannot permit a hoarding of influence over everyone else in proportion to that wealth. We all live here, you can't take all the toys, place nice.
Or we'll fucking hang you - read your history.
This is the only course open to maintain Civilisation.
- SteveZissou0
I think the world would be a better place if people lost the ability to buy the latest iPhone every damn release!
...but seriously, the debt is just insane.
People don't throw good money after bad forever, but get really turned off by the idea when the currency they're holding is devaluing fast (like our savings), China is already pissed...where's all the welfare and healthcare coming from when the credit dries up?
Hopefully we won't be battling it out in the thunderdome next week, but I think things are gonna have to change a lot, and dramatically if the pressure keeps building.
Us 1st worlders don't like to go without even HD TVs, let alone the important stuff, so it could get rough.
...but "I'm not technical" so feel free to tell me why I'm wrong, in detail please so I'll sleep better.
- TheBlueOne0
Babylon fell. Rome fell. The Ming dynasty fell. On a long enough timeline what your concerned about is inevitable and the truly enlightened person doesn't really give a shit. But go on and peddle your fear to the rubes if it let's you sleep at night.
- I think even the 'truly enlightened' Greeks are giving a shit right now..SteveZissou
- fadein110
the decline of the dollar will restore balance to the force
- JSK0
Lose of US dollar value is nothing to do with import from other countries.
The main scare is (to other countries and US) that no one would buy debt from US Govt. China, who holds most of US debt has started to reduce its holdings. US Currency has been used as a foreign for most countries but they are reducing it. If no one is buying US debt, US can no longer borrow money regardless to debt ceiling.
- deathboy0
Its not in the best interests of other countries to have the dollar drop. They'd take a hit losing exports. So should be fine to keep up this imaginary game of value and wealth. Or at least until the big boy nations decide to play manifest destiny