Global Economy
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- fadein110
the decline of the dollar will restore balance to the force
- TheBlueOne0
Babylon fell. Rome fell. The Ming dynasty fell. On a long enough timeline what your concerned about is inevitable and the truly enlightened person doesn't really give a shit. But go on and peddle your fear to the rubes if it let's you sleep at night.
- I think even the 'truly enlightened' Greeks are giving a shit right now..SteveZissou
- JSK0
"JSK, gold not a hedge? Because it's at a high? What about paper gold?...Swiss Francs??"
Swiss francs is sliding today as appetite for risk is gaining and yes it has been treated as hedge. Gold and slv have been for a while as a speculative commodities for a while. Note the rise is INDU / SP500 and rise in commodities. If it was a hedge, it would be going in opposite direction. There is a tipping point where divergence happen. Lately, there is a divergence as more investors are getting confident about the market.
If you want to have hedge and have ability to move your capital, I would suggest looking in to inverse derivatives or treasury ETFs to balance things out.
- Cheers for the tips...financial education needed...SteveZissou
- careful with inverse derivatives, you can get burned very quickly but make a lot at the same time.JSK
- JSK0
I always find it funny that people who criticize capitalism or market dynamics or transfer of wealth are people who live in the capitalistic society. They have the luxury to complain about such topic. Western ideals and notions tends to provide the speculative idea that there is a disparity among others as it is compared to their own means.
Indeed, disparity is a natural state but it is not unjust. Note that market changes the transfer of wealth regardless of manipulative state. China, who has entered the capitalistic momentum, has taken more prominent role in global economy. If you believe that capitalism and notion of market forces are not justified, this is a clear example. If you would have asked someone 25 years ago that China would be global economic power, no one would have believed you.
Capitalism has a natural order.
It is in our nature to be competitive and create class system. While some are defined, others are created through wealth or other means. Survival of the fittest or smartest will prevail regardless. This natural order fits well with capitalistic society.
- jadrian_uk0
"and argues that free market economies are more productive and beneficial to their societies"
I wont read that book, that statement is pure fascism.
- How is that fascism?JSK
- see how many people are in misery because of uncontrolled free market economies? that's fascismjadrian_uk
- Our market is controlled. It is not free market. Existence of SEC, central bank makes it not free.JSK
- 74LEO0
Fred Goldstein: http://www.lowwagecapitalism.com…
Marxist / WW member and Leon Trotsky historian.
A good read as it gives a current breakdown of capitalism and the working class in this plutocracy called america.
- numbers0
If you take a closer look at capitalist vs socialist or communist you will see there is not as much difference as you might think. In both cases you have a handful of large organizations that dominate each industry. Whats the real difference between a state controlled Chinese bank and Bank of America or JP Morgan? Both are run by elitists with close ties to government, both have oligarchy type control within their industry. And most industries in the U.S. work this way, dominated by a handful of huge corporations.
Sure we have more small businesses and more innovation that countries like China, but how helpful has that been to the overall growth of the economy over the past 20 years? If a capitalist system was dramatically better, wouldn't we be leaving countries like China and Brazil in the dust? How did the Soviet Union successfully compete with us with almost half a century?
At the end of the day, a lot of ideology are just like slogans to rally the team. The success of an economy has more to do with resources, workforce, as well as political and military power.
- JSK0
People always forget that all of these large businesses started out a small businesses.
If you are rich, you are a selfish jerk. If you are poor, you are a lazy dumbass.
You just can't win.
- SteveZissou0
I think the world would be a better place if people lost the ability to buy the latest iPhone every damn release!
...but seriously, the debt is just insane.
People don't throw good money after bad forever, but get really turned off by the idea when the currency they're holding is devaluing fast (like our savings), China is already pissed...where's all the welfare and healthcare coming from when the credit dries up?
Hopefully we won't be battling it out in the thunderdome next week, but I think things are gonna have to change a lot, and dramatically if the pressure keeps building.
Us 1st worlders don't like to go without even HD TVs, let alone the important stuff, so it could get rough.
...but "I'm not technical" so feel free to tell me why I'm wrong, in detail please so I'll sleep better.
- numbers0
The Chinese approach could be viewed as the future because they have advanced beyond the ideological argument of capitalism vs communism
Meanwhile in America, people still wave their little American flags talking about how capitalism is the best ever.
- mikotondria30
Oh!! The debt, the debt !!
Debt is not a measure of value, it is measure of who has something and who does not.
If I have a million dollars in the bank, the bank owes me a million dollars. If the world has borrowed 50 trillion dollars, and is 50 trillion dollars in debt, then someone somewhere is 50 trillion dollars up (even if they are nervous about getting it back). None of the value is created or destroyed... is it possible that everyone in the world could be drowned by debt ? No - the richest 1% of the world have amassed the value created in the last 50 years at 1000 times the rate everyone else has, and suddenly we're all up to our eyes in debt. To them ?
Default on a mass scale. Anyone who owns more than 100million dollars is subject to a one-time pay-to-play fee leaving them with only 100million dollars. They need to understand that amassing wealth cannot permit a hoarding of influence over everyone else in proportion to that wealth. We all live here, you can't take all the toys, place nice.
Or we'll fucking hang you - read your history.
This is the only course open to maintain Civilisation.
- JSK0
You are wrong.
People buying and selling makes the economy go around. You get a job from that. There is no us and them. Its all interconnected.
Ideally, we would let the market forces decide who survives but the hardship would be too great that we would not survive.
- Bought many US treasury bonds lately then, us ?
mikotondria3 - I do hold treasuries. Bought some about 2 months ago. And selling now as the current market recoversJSK
- Also hold inverse leveraged ETFs and dev market funds.JSK
- btw i was replying to the guy above you.JSK
- Also buy municipal bonds for tax free income.JSK
- *yes :)mikotondria3
- Bought many US treasury bonds lately then, us ?
- JSK0
mikotondria3
Look at devaluation of currency in larger countries or even smaller countries. Russia triggered massive economic down turn. Asian financial crisis did the same.
They were both bailed out by the western countries. Now that the western countries are in the down, there really is no one willing to help. China is just hoarding for themselves (gold, natural resources etc).
Devaluing currency is fine for short term but long term, the devaluation can take an accelerated pace.
The US is playing the same game as what the big banks did. "Too big to fail". US feels that if they fail, the global economy will pretty much fail and it has been failing. China will lose it's biggest export partner.
- mikotondria30
My rant is more to do with the transfer of value. The richest people have got richer during this recession. The govt is trillions of dollars short on what it needs, tax cuts have left a huge hole in the budget, and everyone else is expected to either suffer cuts in services (for which they have paid). The collapse precipitated by deregulating financial instruments like derivatives was political negligence, as was the tax cuts for the rich that have ground our faces into the dirt and leave us on the brink of who-knows-what. Meanwhile, those people who benefited from the tax cuts are also those who benefited from the collapse.
There has been a massive transfer of wealth upward, and I for one will eat bread and drink water and live without electricity if it meant that it would bring those fuckers down too. I'd eat shit and live in a burning, lawless urban dystopia if it meant that there wasn't an orchestrated band of cunts scheming and benefiting from my misery.- but is it wrong if they game the system, and do it legally?deathboy
- it depends if you believe it's ethical to act politically and create a system that 'transfers value without permission.'.mikotondria3
- (otherwise known as stealing. Is legalised theft wrong ? )mikotondria3
- askign about solely the legal part. ethical is outside law. If we live by law than it seem justdeathboy
- personally i prefer to act ethically. ethics based in philosophy and not gov law. why i blame gov more thandeathboy
- the men gaming the system that society tells them they must follow by laws and rule of govdeathboy
- peopel question the men and actions and not the values and law of society that set there path by ability and ambitiondeathboy
- id suggest instead of blaming the man gaming the system. blame the system. ignore rich or poor but methods enabling disparitydeathboy
- the disparity. if a man uses gov to his advantage is it more his fault or the gov. who should have more integritydeathboy
- i like to think of greedy corp guy as a child and gov as the parent. The gov needs to say no.deathboy
- JSK0
This has been going on for years. This is not new.
If equalization of wealth was to exist, there would be no motivation for success.
- Would love to see sports if everyone had a equal right to play.deathboy
- sports is a shitty metaphor. war is better.TheBlueOne
- i was thinkign of wealth as talent. it can be earned through training or inherited as natural talentdeathboy
- I may want to play NBA but lack either inherited or earned skill. So i bitch and moan about equality to play.deathboy
- its a sound metaphor. there may be better thoughdeathboy
- what was the metaphor with war? thinking mayne motvation to survive and conquer but no call for equal distributiondeathboy
- drgs0
A nation's wealth = natural resources, free information and people who can navigate in it (education)
Everything else incl. political systems is secondary
- SteveZissou0
Mikotondria3, I'm with you on the bread and water...now, before the rfid chips...
It looks like there could well be another round of Quantitative Easing here in the UK.
JSK, gold not a hedge? Because it's at a high? What about paper gold?...Swiss Francs??
- deathboy0
hey blueman
I wasnt ranting about economics or anything specifically direct. I was covering large ground and the main thing that got me to rant was a lot of the views on wealth disparity and the vibe that its bad for no specific reason. That its merely a talking point to gain power by the people slinging the drivel. That ppl need to look past it and analyze who says what and their motivations. The philosophy guiding such actions and ultimate goals. If you want to know more where i was coming from i think the closest thing that could describe my state of mind would be this excerpt.
http://greenspun.com/bboard/q-an…
But it was jsut a rant in no way a research or academic paper that had a clear argument with some sort of proof. Just a before bedtime rant that i get personal pleasure from by thinking about and analyzing things and to check my owns thoughts. And i know i dont explain things well. Im not really concerned with that since im not trying to get someone to agree. Why would i since i dont know the audience or have any reason to care. Its just a personal exercise, a soap box for one. But hey if u know of any other good books along these lines let me know. Something more like neil postman for the essay kind of stuff.