Question for experienced print designers
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- gramme0
Also, don't lock into a page count just yet. I recommend approaching it from a thumbnail/storyboard perspective first. Get your pagination and flow locked in before you even think about type, color, etc.
Maybe give them a price range based on a few different page count options. Going hourly after phase one might get you into trouble. You'll run higher risks of being nickel & dimed to death.
- gramme0
I can't add anything to what capn said, besides a design suggestion: make it a perfect-bound book. If this is a high-end brand, it will look better. At 44+ pages, it'll be thick enough. It depends on paper weight, but below 36 pp. or so will take you back into saddle-stitched territory. If you perfect-bind, your page count can be divisible by two, rather than four. But four will still be the most economical choice in most scenarios.
- acrossthesea0
I'd want to know what exactly they had in mind for the 40+ pages. If 3/4 of those pages can follow a similar layout, then it'd be a lot faster than 40 unique layouts. Maybe you can get some sort of outline from them?
Like others have said, maybe break this up into 2 phases. Use the 1st phase to design a few key spreads and get them to buy off on the look/feel. Then use phase 2 to finish the bulk of the work. Phase 1 can be a set price, phase 2 can be hourly.
- vaxorcist0
have a "change request form" that has to be signed off on, or accepted via email.... ammunition forwhen bean counter questions why final bill is different from estimate
- AVAVA0
Good stuff thanks.
- Christa0
Quote a flat fee to assemble all the elements and layout which includes one round of revisions (minor proofing edits) and say that additional pages or revisions will be hourly-----and that's where you'll make all your money, clients are never as organized in their process as you are
- maikel0
Quote per hour. You know better than anybody else how much an hour of your time is worth. Consider design, meetings, amends, ask about proof read, photo editing (you will need some retouching regardless) and production sourcing/qa. Think about your printing costs. More often than not you will need to proof your book, and let's say you have to print the whole lot a few times, there's over a 100 decent colour printed copies. Oh, and if you don't have yet a set of standard terms&conds make sure you get one beforehand.
Once you got your number, do it times 1,5 and add VAT.
...and after all that, if you like the project, probably you will end up taking it on whatever money they want to pay you.
- AVAVA0
Another fine point - thanks Vaxo!
- vaxorcist0
make DAMN sure you have a contract that spells out that the client is responsible for final press check....
I worked for a small agency that was almost bankrupted by a client demanding a huge job be reprinted because they didn't notice an error that only they could have found... i.e. not a typo, but wrong info....
- AVAVA0
Thanks for the info D_rek.
i_monk - yup good point - Ill take 44.
- i_monk0
45 pages is impossible.
44 or 46, pick one.
Unless you mean 90.
- how is 46 going to work? you need page numbers to be divisible by 4.Amicus
- By 46, he must have meant 48...duckofrubber
- 48 is a standard... 44 is wasting paper unless you have a bizarre format.
maikel
- d_rek0
I work for a small firm. Our going rate is around $200/day for design services. So break it down...
8hr average work day (realistically 10-12)
120 / 8 = 15 days
200 / 8 = $25/hr
15 x $200 = $3,000Although if you're going at it as a freelancer you can (and probably will want to) charge more.
Also FYI... the 120hr number is purely design+production. It did not include meetings and/or research.
- AVAVA0
sorry - I meant hourly charge...
- AVAVA0
thanks D_rek - Just out of curiosity, what did you set as a day rate charge for those projects?
A
- d_rek0
If you're thinking in billable hours i've done two books in the last year.
120+ hours for a 6.5x9", 64 pg, signature bound, 4CP offset printed Supplemental Reader for a Museum. Supplied Copy and Images with many rounds of copy editing and revision.
60 hours for a 50 pg perfect bound book, supplied copy, had to acquire images from media galleries/stock photos.
- sisu0
Now try explaining signatures to the client. Charge by the hour, wtf.
- dMullins0
Don't quote per page, quote per signature. Given how signatures are setup, I might use this idea in a "range" quote, instead of price-per-page. So each additional signature set = bump in price, not each individual page.
- capn_ron0
budget would be the main question. Then (when it is a lot less than you want to do the job for) ask for what you think it is worth to you. Don't skimp out here because you'll end up mad at the project in the end. If you make what you're worth you'll be happy.
- AVAVA0
Tasty - A nice thought there, but don't think that's going to work.
----I guess what I should have asked you guys, is if there is a set of questions that you ask your clients before doing this type of job....
- tasty0
get paid in trident layers gum.