real world iPad example
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- DrBombay0
You realize you are making excuses for a publicly traded corporation, right?
- DrBombay0
People talking about the lack of something in a product is pretty new. Can't think of another brand where the lack of a feature is talked about as a benefit.
- SteveJobs0
what is a standard? is a technology a standard just because a committee says it is? is it a standard because all browsers support it? if that's the case, html5 still isn't a standard - in fact, these web standards have barely been adhered to by any major browser. every company i've ever worked for has had to do qa for every browser out there. they didn't just cross safari or firefox off the list because they are standards-complient.
this is one of the reasons flash was born, to circumvent that crap and just handle the browser/platform compatibility from within the runtime. because of what it provides it has effectively been the go-to alternative for providing a cross-browser experience.
anyway, the point is, flash, in it's ubiquity has practically become a standard. does apple have to comply with it? NOPE! but we can't just neglect the implications of them (apple) denying its importance in the industry and on their platforms. it affects others. that's pretty much all i'm saying.
finally, while i respect apple's decision to reject any technology, i believe there is some obligation on every companies part to embrace other technologies that have become standard, despite the short-coming of those respective technologies.
- ernexbcn0
shit I wrote a massive post and it's not showing up :(
- ukit0
I believe a standard would be something not controlled by the whims of one particular company. Sure there are going to be politics in all of this but at least with the rest of it all the major players have a voice. It's democracy, yes, it's a slow and messy, sometimes inefficient process, but it's better than one company having absolute control.
- ernexbcn0
fuck I wrote a massive post that QBN chewed because I wrote F W A (together) ... I'm not writing that again right now...
- SteveJobs0
i kind of agree ukit, but i don't think adobe has *that* much control. we've (developers and designers alike) have adopted this technology as an alternative to other client-side technologies, because for the longest time it was easy for even a beginner developer/designer to create impressive dynamic content with little effort. the web community has made flash what it is, not macromedia or adobe.
adobe really needs to make some improvements with regards to it's runtime and the api to keep itself afloat, otherwise natural selection will take it's course (by the collective decision of the community) and another standard will be born. until then, it's still the best option we have so far.
- Does Adobe allow companies do create their own versions of the Flash player? Then you could kind of make a comparison.ukit
- if you're talking about the proprietary nature of their runtime, then you're missing my point/argument entirely.SteveJobs
- That's what control means in this context. When's that mobile Flash player coming out again?ukit
- i don't know and i don't care, ask adobe.SteveJobs
- scarabin0
i really dig their outdoor campaign... i've seen bus shelters around that show a POV perspective of someone holding the tablet, checking email, reading a book, etc. clearly the goal is to make people see themselves with the product and realize, "hey that could be me"
- cept they all dress like 50-something dads that wear wrinke-free dockers.SteveJobs
- and they all use it in situations that might as well be a fucking laptop.linearch
- lol @ linearch
didnt' think about that.SteveJobs - if they didn't you guys would bitch about them being hipstersscarabin
- and isn't laptop stuff basically what it's used for?scarabin
- i mean they're not focusing on gaming...scarabin
- ukit0
I think an argument could be made that in an age where there is less and less standardization in regard to the client, it becomes even more important to standard format or language itself. Otherwise we are counting on Flash to perform well in different contexts, and a lot of it is in the hands of Adobe. I'm sure they'll do a bang up job just as soon as they finish the new version of the Bones tool.
I guess the reason I don't feel much angst about what Apple is doing is that Flash is on the way out anyway. When you have a completely free alternative - i.e., JQuery, or whatever else is out there - that is as good or nearly as good - it's hard to see how that doesn't eventually overtake the technology that costs $400 for the proprietary version and is harder to work with. Flash won't die completely but it will almost certainly play a more limited role in the future. All of which would have happened without the iPad.
But what the iPad does is force companies to reevaluate their sites and make them backwards compatible to viewing experiences that don't support Flash.
- Nice analysis. I concur.monospaced
- uh how is jquery on par with the flash player?Mimio
- ernexbcn0
check out this fresh post from Gruber about Flash in mobile devices
- SteveJobs0
you don't feel angst because you're not directly affected. that's why i gave the analogy of losing the creative suite to a decision to not support it. i'm not personally affected either really, but i know others are, and as a developer i can appreciate the impact that can have on an industry.
also, you keep saying flash is on its way out, but then you always try to qualify your statement by saying it won't go away completely. video alternatives will be favored as will ad publishing. all-flash designer portfolios and lame client trickery that can be done in js/jquery will also go back to its true client roots. beyond that, i don't think you can speak for the industry.
- Beyond that, there's not a whole lot to speak of, if we go by raw numbers.ukit
- ukit0
What I'm saying is, whether it affects me personally or not, I think I would feel pissed if I felt what Apple was doing was detrimental to the industry or would affect the field of interactive design as a whole in a negative way.
- i really don't see you as the objective voice of reason with regards to this topic, but ok.SteveJobs
- LOL, why do you keep trying to question my motives, it's not like I'm alone in how I see it.ukit
- because you talk a double-standard. you preach open standards, and defend a company who's platform is closed.SteveJobs
- closed.SteveJobs
- quack0
dow chemicals to make paper from trees instead of hemp. capitalism does what capitalism wants
- everything should be made from hemp. You could say hemp should be the standardDodecahedron
- jhey0
- must_dash0
If I was in college now I'd be learning jquery
- monospaced0
I never thought this thread would last this long.
- 5 more threads by the end of the weekukit
- all from the same guy, twokidsmonospaced