The terrorist won
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- ********0
It's not so much that the "terrorists won" as it is the elites in our societies have taken advantage of the tiny threat the "terrorists" pose for their own gain in power and money.
So really, we have lost to ourselves because we, as citizens of the free countries, have been lulled into complacency and let our own oligarchies ass rape us to keep us safe. You have no one else to blame than the person in the mirror.
What the "terrorists" want and whether they are winning or losing according to their own metrics is never explored, never discussed, and can never be discussed in the media.
- ********0
- you are in deep shitbenfal99
- Dammit, Mohammed made me gay.harlequino
- great, now they're going to open up a can of fatwa on you...Uglyfreak
- lowimpakt0
"What the "terrorists" want and whether they are winning or losing according to their own metrics is never explored, never discussed, and can never be discussed in the media."
of course it's discussed - often it's a response to post-colonial fall out (mismanagement), wars of agression and their legacy, vacuous "regime change" and the instability that ensues, complex oppression and suppression, global inequality, resource theft, inequality and indignity, people with long memories not getting over shit etc.
- Is that what the terrorists say? Or is that what Western academics say they say?********
- Is that what the terrorists say? Or is that what Western academics say they say?
- miesvan0
ETA, IRA, Bader Meinhof, Brigate Rosse,...Do you think this is diferent now?
WAKE UP
- GeorgesII0
miesvan is different because people now have been heavily pussyfied, they watch TV and think every thing is out to kill them,
terrorist, koalas, global warming, lady gaga...
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I remember after 9/11 there was a sondage that went like this.
would you give up some of your rights for security,
sadly those freaking lemming chose to give up some rights (i will try to find it)
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funny article
"Yo dawg, I heard you like TSA security restrictions, so I put some security restrictions on top of your security restrictions"
As we boarded, the flight attendants announced that all passengers would be prohibited from getting out of their seats (for instance, to go to the toilet) or from using any electronic devices (phones, laptops, games) or having anything on their laps (even a book or a blanket) during the last hour of the flight. I tweeted about it from the plane. Bottom line, the new rules make your fellow passengers farty and crosslegged (ever try not going to the bathroom during the last part of a really long-haul international flight?), the flight attendants seemed to be just as annoyed about the meritless new rules as the passengers, and we were none the safer. The worst part? None of this would have stopped the pantsbomber.
http://boingboing.net/2009/12/26…
- ********0
One of the fundamental laws of warfare is to understand your enemy. What his motivations are, what are his goals, etc. It's an odd, funny thing that what yields great success in the pursuit of destroying your enemy wholly is to know him as well or not better than he knows himself.
There is a purposeful and directed obfuscation among the discussion we are allowed to have in the West, and specifically in America and the UK, about what exactly are the goals of these "terrorists" other than that they "hate us" and want to "commit terror".
I am sure at certain levels of the intelligence services and in upper echelons of the military some are discussing this, although I'd bet that the ones discussing it aren't really listened to, because the benefits of ignoring it for private, short term gain is too great. Not a good career choice to undermine massive amounts of funding to keep us "safe" just because you have a glimmer of truthful insight.
So to say that the terrorists are a "response to post-colonial fall out" isn't really understanding what the "terrorists" are about, empathetically speaking, but rather a studied and distant academic summation of what suits our emotional reactions and cultural framework. And it sounds good when intoned by talking heads when they appear on the TV, especially when they are labeled "Generic Academic Anti-War Left Spokesperson".
Furthermore, what drives a kid form Pakistan, Somalia or Saudi Arabia or the son of an Afghan bodega owner in Detroit to travel to the middle east to partake in Jihad might be all very different things.
Any discussion of "winning" and "losing" itself without knowing what is actually being fought over, for why and by whom is just agit-prop. And I think the answer isn't as clear cut as some kind of post-colonial response anymore. That is a boilerplate answer that doesn't map to reality.
Georgesll using thinks he's pretty smart, but he's not. He's the kid with the mohawk and the leather jacket giving the finger to the cop thinking he's pretty sharp and unique, while lacking to understand that his pose is itself an established, conventional response all in and of itself.
And while I think the response of increased authoritarian intrusion into areas formerly considered areas of personal privacy are of deep, deep concern and should force us to have a deep debate about what our culture values are in it's espousement of "freedom", I am less convinced that in and of themselves such security measures at, and confined to, localized points such as international airports and borders are in fact the grave undermining of what a "free society" means within the larger scope of historical context that so many seem to get their panties in a bunch about. Again, since we are unable to have an actual discussion about the true threats, we can not have an actual discussion about the relevance of the counter-reactions.
- tell your mom the cookies were good last weekendversion3
- Ooo..moderator talks tough with lame joke that worked when he was 12.********
- I get your point, but it sounds like a lot of hot air. What's your take on the "terrorist's" reasoning then?Gucci
- too much to read, what was your argument in 4 bullet points ... pleaseautoflavour
- lowimpakt0
subcommandante - i wasn't making up an academic statement. I grew up under the very real terror of the UDA, British Army, B Specials, IRA, INLA, UFF, Red Hand Commando's etc.
so I didn't have much choice but to spend my youth trying to understand terrorism on my doorstep and across the world.
have you ever had a gun pointed in your face through the window of your car?
- only joking about the b specialslowimpakt
- You´re losing your time lowimpakt, he is not going to understand this until he experience it first-handOBBTKN
- You missed my point.********
- You had a visceral understanding of that conflict. Do you have the same for the "jihadists".********
- Also, do you think the Terror in Ireland was reported about correctly in the media?********
- Was it clear what was being fought over and why?********
- johndiggity0
i think it's pretty clear that what "terrorists" want is an islamic state in palestine and the end of israel. these are religious fanatics and jerusalem is one the holiest cities in islam. to say that's beyond our understanding, or hasn't been discussed in the media is untrue.
- flashbender0
uh, also the holiest city in Judaism and Christianity.
coincidence?
So what happens if you give full rights over Jerusalem to palestine and the arabs?
Then the Jews and the Christians blow people up.
Stop trying to "end terrorism" Man is a war like race and when one group can't compete with another they will use the best / most effective means at their disposal.
This used to be called guerrilla warfare but now it is called terrorism.
- "Stop trying to "end terrorism" "
LOLjanne76 - the next war will be the "war on religion" for just this reason.johndiggity
- "war on religion" i would love that.
my sister is annoying the hell out of me with her loud church songs...pango - songspango
- war on church songs!flashbender
- "Stop trying to "end terrorism" "
- 23kon0
"No new laws were necessary to stop 9/11. If the immigration services, the FBI and the CIA had been doing their jobs properly, the attacks could have been prevented."
This article is well worth a read with regards to this latest attack ...
- Machuse0
Yea i agree with Georges
been thinking the same thing. These rules will do nothing to stop someone from doing this in the future. Ill just set us up the bomb an hour and a half before the end of the flight. Or just disobey, and jump up to the bathroom at the end of the flight anyway - no one will tackle someone they legitamitaly think just needs to go too the bathroom - do your work in there in 30 seconds ... no one would have time to stop u.
if these bombers ever had there shit together, no one would even notice what they were doing anyway.
- elpaso0
they won?
not unless the ultimate goal of all the barbaric murders was to beef up airport security.
- DrBombay0
No doubt, El Paso. As long as there are western countries occupying Middle eastern nations, they haven't really won anything. George is a doomsayer that is enamored with bad things happening to America, so he takes every chance he gets to talk shit about it.
- lowimpakt0
anyway... according to the tabloids in the UK.. these are the real terrorists
- GURN!!!!autoflavour
- Fucking chavscannonball1978
- Solid hair cutswagshaft
- ukit0
No one wins. It's a stupid fight. Let's all be friends.
- discoduro0
IT'S CAKE MOTHERFUCKER!!!! YOU'RE DEAD!!!!!
- utopian0
YES THE TERRORISTS ARE WINNING!
Pakistan: Taliban brainwashes kids with visions of virgins
http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/as…
- CALLES0
hey you!
