Gaza
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- DrBombay0
they should all get together and roast a pig ;)
- _niko0
- a little anti-Semitic are we?dconstrukt
- no anti-israeli. Palestinians are a semitic people after all._niko
- Pretty disgusting man. Seriously, there is absolutely no comparison and when you try to make it you just look like a god damn idiot.liveslow
- ... a god damn idot.liveslow
- fuck you idiot, ask the palestinians if there is a comparison._niko
- _niko, you are a blithering idiot. You fucking don't know what you are talking about.laurus
- your own country has killed more civilians in Iraq then Then all the soldiers and civilianslaurus
- that died since 1929 in the Israeli–Palestinian conflict. so get some proportions.laurus
- fittingerikjonsson
- laurus get a clue. My country is Canada. I don't think we've killed any civilians in Iraq. Butchers._niko
- niko may be canadian, but you're STILL an idiot for posting this shit..... antisemitedconstrukt
- lol dkonstrukt ignorant idiot.
I have many Jewish friends and most of the people i look up to happen to be jewish_niko - but disagreeing with Israeli aggression and its policies makes me an anti-semite?_niko
- no that flag is.... and you're still a dumbass.dconstrukt
- the flag in context to the article about banning arab parties seems about right._niko
- kelpie0
arg, will probably regret bringing more of this up, but it just seems to get worse and worse. Lots in here (all alleged of course) that directly negates a lot of the points being made by pro-Israeli voices in this thread.
I know most folk don't actually click the links when they know the article will be against their position, so I'm pasting the whole thing:
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Israel is facing growing demands from senior UN officials and human rights groups for an international war crimes investigation in Gaza over allegations such as the "reckless and indiscriminate" shelling of residential areas and use of Palestinian families as human shields by soldiers.
With the death toll from the 17-day Israeli assault on Gaza climbing above 900, pressure is increasing for an independent inquiry into specific incidents, such as the shelling of a UN school turned refugee centre where about 40 people died, as well as the question of whether the military tactics used by Israel systematically breached humanitarian law.
The UN's senior human rights body approved a resolution yesterday condemning the Israeli offensive for "massive violations of human rights". A senior UN source said the body's humanitarian agencies were compiling evidence of war crimes and passing it on to the "highest levels" to be used as seen fit.
Some human rights activists allege that the Israeli leadership gave an order to keep military casualties low no matter what cost to civilians. That strategy has directly contributed to one of the bloodiest Israeli assaults on the Palestinian territories, they say.
John Ging, head of the UN Palestinian refugee agency in Gaza, said: "It's about accountability [over] the issue of the appropriateness of the force used, the proportionality of the force used and the whole issue of duty of care of civilians.
"We don't want to join any chorus of passing judgment but there should be an investigation of any and every incident where there are concerns there might have been violations in international law."
The Israeli military are accused of:
• Using powerful shells in civilian areas which the army knew would cause large numbers of innocent casualties;
• Using banned weapons such as phosphorus bombs;
• Holding Palestinian families as human shields;
• Attacking medical facilities, including the killing of 12 ambulance men in marked vehicles;
• Killing large numbers of police who had no military role.
Israeli military actions prompted an unusual public rebuke from the International Red Cross after the army moved a Palestinian family into a building and shelled it, killing 30. The surviving children clung to the bodies of their dead mothers for four days while the army blocked rescuers from reaching the wounded.
Human Rights Watch has called on the UN security council to set up a commission of inquiry into alleged war crimes.
Two leading Israeli human rights organisations have separately written to the country's attorney general demanding he investigate the allegations.
But critics remain sceptical that any such inquiry will take place, given that Israel has previously blocked similar attempts with the backing of the US.
Amnesty International says hitting residential streets with shells that send blast and shrapnel over a wide area constitutes "prima facie evidence of war crimes".
"There has been reckless and disproportionate and in some cases indiscriminate use of force," said Donatella Rovera, an Amnesty investigator in Israel. "There has been the use of weaponry that shouldn't be used in densely populated areas because it's known that it will cause civilian fatalities and casualties.
"They have extremely sophisticated missiles that can be guided to a moving car and they choose to use other weapons or decide to drop a bomb on a house knowing that there were women and children inside. These are very, very clear breaches of international law."
Israel's most prominent human rights organisation, B'Tselem, has written to the attorney general in Jerusalem, Meni Mazuz, asking him to investigate suspected crimes including how the military selects its targets and the killing of scores of policemen at a passing out parade.
"Many of the targets seem not to have been legitimate military targets as specified by international humanitarian law," said Sarit Michaeli of B'Tselem.
Rovera has also collected evidence that the Israeli army holds Palestinian families prisoner in their own homes as human shields. "It's standard practice for Israeli soldiers to go into a house, lock up the family in a room on the ground floor and use the rest of the house as a military base, as a sniper's position. That is the absolute textbook case of human shields.
"It has been practised by the Israeli army for many years and they are doing it again in Gaza now," she said.
While there are growing calls for an international investigation, the form it would take is less clear. The UN's human rights council has the authority to investigate allegations of war crimes but Israel has blocked its previous attempts to do so. The UN security council could order an investigation, and even set up a war crimes tribunal, but that is likely to be vetoed by the US and probably Britain.
The international criminal court has no jurisdiction because Israel is not a signatory. The UN security council could refer the matter to the court but is unlikely to.
Benjamin Rutland, a spokesman for the Israeli military, said an international investigation of the army's actions was not justified. "We have international lawyers at every level of the command whose job it is to authorise targeting decisions, rules of engagement ... We don't think we have breached international law in any of these instances," he said.
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link:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/…and I know the Graudian is a left leaning paper, but the words are from the UN and the Red Cross and Israeli human rights organisations
- so horrible.vespa
- everyine's guilty, hamas claimed many suicide bomb attacks which were carried out by two bombersDanglin_Dave
- first bomber to strike a bakery or cafe, anyway a place where many people were lined up (for the grave)Danglin_Dave
- and the second bomber to finish off the rescue services and people who speeded there to helpDanglin_Dave
- no one gives a damn.Danglin_Dave
- War is a crime. Yet allegations of war crimes against Israel always raise after any conflict.laurus
- After all, there are 21 Arab members of the United Nations.
This happened with the recent war in Lebanon as well.laurus - And guess what happened with these allegations.laurus
- So sure, horrible things are happening. But no different than any other world conflict.laurus
- Khurram0
They create a nation of refugees, and then remorselesslly bomb the shit out of them. And then they wonder why they're hated so much.
Saw an interview with a 7 year old girl on the news last night, as her family attempted to flee the bombed out streets.
- "Why are you leaving?"
- "Because the Jews told us to."
- "Are you sacred?"
- "Yes."
- tank020
Apperently it has become a tourist attractions for the
people fo Israel.
- Danglin_Dave0
"for the people of israel"...
i dont see seven million jews standing there
must feel good to generalise them jids eh tankie boy- generalised? He said "Israelis" not Jews. Nice try thoKhurram
- OK you got me there... but its sad to see that this young man generalises disaster tourists for "the people of israel"Danglin_Dave
- thus believing what the newspapers dictate him. poor soul.Danglin_Dave
- Clearly your instincts are to twist attacks on Israel as deep-rooted anti-semitism. It's a tactic that's worked well.Khurram
- but your knee jerk reactions only highlight your own prejudices.Khurram
- the first un-conditioned unaffected person in this discour please stand up.Danglin_Dave
- Indeed. And the dishonesty in allegations of anti-semitism are part of that discourse?Khurram
- you know tank02?Danglin_Dave
- but i agree i was a bit hasty making that conclusion, sorryDanglin_Dave
- it's antisemitism when you judge israel by other standardslaurus
- US kills more civilians in a week in Iraq.laurus
- Jordan killed 1200 Palestinians in one day for political reasons.laurus
- Syria killed 10,000 of its own citizens for political reasonslaurus
- enlightened 'moderate' Egypt killed its own farmers for political reasons.laurus
- There are other ethnic groups that want independence like the Curds, Basques, etc.laurus
- In Darfour there's a REAL genocide.laurus
- Yet, for some reason, Israel causes Europeans and Muslims to get upset.laurus
- If Israel wanted to commit genocide, all it would need would be to send one jet plane with the right ammo.laurus
- Iraq doesn't pose a threat to the US, but still it is bombed and occupied.laurus
- Anyone that understands military campaigns would tell you. This is relative surgical accuracy when mobilizing units of that scale.laurus
- as someone who served in the Israeli army – I can tell you. There are very strict rules as to when and who to shoot.laurus
- Much stricter than those applied by the US in Iraq.laurus
- Ah yes, the infallible delusions of victimhood.Khurram
- Whatever. Fact is, no other country would stand idly if its citizen would be shelled for 5 years.laurus
- Another fact is – Hamas refuses ceasefire. And says 67 borders is not enough. Only destruction of Israel is.laurus
- So while I do not support the attacks. I definitely think Israel has every right to defend itself.laurus
- And while terrible things are happening, they are not different than in any other conflict in the world.laurus
- Maybe apart from being smaller scale.laurus
- Josev0
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/1…
"WASHINGTON — In an unusually public rebuke, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert of Israel said Monday that Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice had been forced to abstain from a United Nations resolution on Gaza that she helped draft, after Mr. Olmert placed a phone call to President Bush.
“I said, ‘Get me President Bush on the phone,’ ” Mr. Olmert said in a speech in the southern Israeli city of Ashkelon, according to The Associated Press. “They said he was in the middle of giving a speech in Philadelphia. I said I didn’t care: ‘I need to talk to him now,’ ” Mr. Olmert continued. “He got off the podium and spoke to me.”
"Mr. Olmert claimed that once he made his case to Mr. Bush, the president called Ms. Rice and told her to abstain. “She was left pretty embarrassed,” Mr. Olmert said, according to The A.P.
The State Department disputed Mr. Olmert’s account. “Her recommendation was to abstain; that was her recommendation all along,” said an official, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the delicate nature of the matter."
Arrogance
- America is Israel's lapdog. And we wonder why 9-11 happened.TheBlueOne
- I'm not sure why this was buried so far into the NYTsJosev
- You're right, we only have ourselves to blame for 9/11 right? I wonder if anyone in the world is to blame for anything besides the US and its allies.liveslow
- besides the US, Israel, and its allies.liveslow
- Yes, do jump on your hyperbole bandwagon.TheBlueOne
- like a miniature pincher?BattleAxe
- liveslow0
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Sat…
"Hamas on Monday raided some 100 aid trucks that Israel had allowed into Gaza, stole their contents and sold them to the highest bidders."
What brave freedom fighters!
Someone needs money for more guns!- hahah jpost, great unbiased reporting._niko
- did they all have Hamas name tagsBattleAxe
- well its not like isreal will actually just let stuff through the border so what do you expect when you leave your trucks in their neighborhoodKwesiJ
- ...trucks in their neighborhood.KwesiJ
- sort of like saying "OMG Iraqis are KILLING AMERICAN SOLDIERS!"KwesiJ
- ukit0
^ It is fascinating how that (Olmert's comment) is not front page news
- PonyBoy0
you folks figure this shit out yet?
- scrap_paper0
http://www.thestar.com/news/cana…
Canada the only one of 47 nations on UN rights panel to refuse to condemn military offensive in Gaza.
Shame on us.
- shame indeed. Get rid of those clowns in power. Harper is a lapdog of a lapdog._niko
- erikjonsson0
what you want a final solution ponyboy?
- PonyBoy0
Make sense and I'll gladly answer your question.
:)
- dconstrukt0
Gotta love the anti-Semites here.
love the last comment tho.... and the hamas terrorists who kidnap israeli civilians.... why does *no one* here mention them?
what about the hesballah terrorists doing the same?
if that shit happened in the US, or canada or uk etc, all fucking hell would break loose....
- gotta love the israel love it or fuck off you anti-semite pussy crowdTheBlueOne
- we already covered that and its a stupid analogyKwesiJ
- Here we go again, we have a different opinion and we are antisemites again...tank02
- when there is no argument to be made it's convenient to stic the anti-semite label on people._niko
- niko you've gotta be a high school dropout, retarded, or just an idiot.dconstrukt
- maybe all three, but even i can see that what Israel is doing is heavy handed and wrong._niko
- oh and radical terrorists launching missiles into another country isnt?
are you out of your mind?dconstrukt
- DrBombay0
so we are anti-semites because we disagree with Israel?
You are a fucking moron.
- +10000_niko
- mr bombay.... defensive a bit? no one called you out specifically but you're a fucking idiot because your comments have no legs... what are you 10?dconstrukt
- tank020
I concur with DrBombay.
Danglin Dave i can still respect, he states his case, even
if think its flawed, but Dconstruct, you are a friggin' moron,
a desinformed moron.- you dare disagree with dconstruct? antisemite!!_niko
- tank you're an idiot.... you can't even answer anything i posted with any sense.dconstrukt
- tank020
If you treat people for 50 year like the palestinians, this is what you get, radicals. Turn the table around, say your five, you live in a camp & you have no water, no electricity, no toys, everyday for over 10 years family members die, friends die, you become shellshock & than you become a radical.
Its very easy to understand the 'death to Israel' comment,
not that i agree or approve but i understand.- they probably deserve it since they hadn't built infastructure or cities with the land when they had it._niko
- tank020
Try to look behind the reason why a radical a radical is.
Take that reason away, problem solved.
In Israel case, is give back the land.
In africa's case is wipe out the borders set by european colonists
& mark the borders where the tribes live. that was for instance the problem in Rwanda, an artificial country created by France, that contained a Hutu & Tutsi tribe.
Ofcourse this will never happen, because the damage has been done...- Ok, so why does Iran want to nuke Israel then? It's certainly not about land for them.liveslow
