God is quite busy
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- ukit0
It is amazing how different people views of existence and the universe can be. Yet we all act exactly the same.
- combustion0
Indeed. That's my point.
It doesn't actually matter what people believe, in a certain point, everybody will kill each other, just for being "different".
So funny we are all made of dust.As long as there are 2 ideas, they will fight 'til death.
- ornj0
- how does an orangutan using tools "go against God's word"? This doesn't even make sense.designbot
- supports the idea that we evolved from a common ancestor.ornj
- fred phelps is
A CUNT.mikotondria3 - I think you can't take Fred Phelps words for nothing.combustion
- mistermik0
those new animals are rubbish - i want a 30 foot horse or 500 foot high lion.
massive, caravan sized sloths for example
- combustion0
Well, ignorant examples makes easy to keep this thread 'til reaches 1000000 replies.
- ukit0
God clearly had some kind of agenda when he created this
- gramme0
No ukit, actually we don't all act the same. One need look no further than this very thread to witness variations in maturity, wisdom and self control. Unfortunately many people who call themselves Christians do not adhere to the royal law given in Scripture, to "love your neighbor as yourself." Of course I won't lay claim to following this mandate perfectly—no one can—but it's something I strive for. Not because of karma, not because of some desire to feel good by making others feel good, but because I want to bring glory to God.
VectorMasked, you say that it's atrocious to impose one's beliefs on another. I think Georges is out of line in throwing the label sinner around, since we are all sinners, but there is nothing wrong in him stating his belief that the universe is God-authored rather than chance-authored—anymore than it would be wrong for you to say the opposite, which you so effusively and vehemently do. You lack proof of God's un-existence, so your claims are just as dogmatic as Georges'. And I must tell you, this bit about people being "abused" by their parents' faith is totally absurd and based in nothing but emotional blather. Every parent raises their children with some worldview or another. We are incapable of not worshipping. That which is most important to you, that which you pour yourself into above all other pursuits and passions—that is your god. It is unavoidable. Now, when everyone reaches the age where reason and decision-making become possible, each person should be able to test and approve for themselves what they believe. I for one have tested, doubted, questioned, poked and prodded my faith for loopholes and my belief has only been made stronger.
You ask for proof of God's existence. I submit to you that we are His proof. Our need to worship, a unique trait among all known creatures, means that there is a metaphysical More that we desire, even need. We have consciences—St. Paul says in Romans that God's moral code is written on our hearts—thus, we feel guilty when we lie, cheat, steal, harm. You may say that we are born as blank slates and that conscience is imposed by upbringing, but I would counter that such a notion is incorrect. We are all products of vastly different upbringings, and yet somehow everyone feels guilty when they lie, cheat or steal, even if their conscience becomes weakened through suppression. Regardless of culture, race, or creed, we all feel compelled to develop excuses for our shameful actions.
In short, we have souls as evidenced above, and souls are such purposeful things that they cannot logically be products of chance.
- you shouldn't mis-represent evolution by calling it 'chance-authored'.ribit
- cos its much more than 'chance'ribit
- eloquent as usual :) well said.designbot
- Nonsense. It's mental abuse because the children have no choice. Imposed thoughts shape the person's personality.VectorMasked
- Every single parent imposes their belief system on their children. I'm sorry man but you can't call that abuse. Not by a long shot.gramme
- long shot.gramme
- it is abuse though. just because its widespread doesn't make it NOT abuse.spifflink
- georges came out and said there was a god, he has the burden of proof, not vector masked.spifflink
- and your last paragraph is pretty terrible, and a logical fallacy. conscience is explained within a darwiniam framework.spifflink
- Just because it doesn't make sense to you, that doesn't make it a logical fallacy.gramme
- no its is circularspifflink
- ukit0
Well I didn't mean exactly the same. I just mean in terms of the regular day to day running of our lives, and what we consider right, wrong etc. it's remarkable how similar we are, despite having such a completely different idea of what the world is, nature of reality etc.
- Right, and I think that's further evidence of the soul.gramme
- no - it's evidence of us all having common ancestors, the opposite of anything you 'think'.mikotondria3
- Too bad we have yet to witness anything beyond micro-evolution in 7,000+ years of recorded history.gramme
- 'witness' ? what do you think fossils are ? or mutating Bacteria ?mikotondria3
- The fossil record is so full of missing pieces and conjecture, I don't think it's wise to place much faith there.gramme
- so your proof of god is taking up shelter in the ever shrinking gaps of scientific understanding?spifflink
- mistermik0
big pigs?
- formed0
Am I incorrect in assuming that because you are declaring having 'evidence' that you are selectively choosing what is 'evidence' and what is not?
Seems like one hell of a contradiction. The idea that people can choose what is evidence and what is not scares the shit out of me.
Can we rewrite history while we are at it?
- monoboy0
Could this thread be 'evidence' that sarcasm doesn't really work too well on message boards.
- typist0
charles darwin is wrong?
- lowimpakt0
"In short, we have souls as evidenced above,"
what evidence? You just said that our existence is the proof of a god. You then trailed off by suggesting that our need to worship a god is somehow compounding this proof.
That's not proof of anything and don't pretend it is.
saying that, I don't want to deny anyone of their faith if it makes them happy.
- No, I didn't say our existence is proof of God. I said our possession of souls & consciences is proof of God.gramme
- Arguing from mere existence becomes cyclical and doesn't prove much, besides the infinite regression problem.gramme
- so is saying god exists because the word of god says he exists.spifflink
- gramme0
I fully believe that it's proof of a god, a higher power. I did not trail off, rather the need to worship and the common possession of conscience are intrinsically linked. I thought I made that pretty clear.
You either buy it or you don't, that's your prerogative. I have no reason to pretend.
I don't have faith so that I can be happy, I have faith because without it I am damned. A tangential effect of faith is that it instills peace and joy, which are much better than happiness (a temporary emotion).
- doesn't proof of god negate faith in god, which negates the reason for his existence?spifflink
- Since when is faith the reason for God's existence? I've never said such a thing.gramme
- spiffink, you make me weary. Read the freaking Bible before coming at me with this nonsense.gramme
- And in the meantime, please cut out the straw man horse shit.gramme
- i have read the bible a couple of times. the entire freaking thing. as well as the quran and the BoM.spifflink
- straw man? man a bit defensive. very christlike. didnt say you said it. so dont get all jumpy.spifflink
- lowimpakt0
If you suffered memory loss (on a desert island by yourself) and forgot that you needed to worship god to prevent "damnation" would god cease to exist?
- gramme0
If God made us and thus preceded us, he therefore does not require our validation to ratify his existence.
- In other words, our belief or lack thereof has no bearing on whether God exists or not.gramme
- +1********
- but if he created us, that attests to god's need for something, what do you suppose that is?spifflink
- He could create us without needing us.. he might have been bored. It might have been an accident.ribit
- god had an accident? oops!spifflink
- He needs money.. lots of it.Lillebo
- lowimpakt0
that doesn't answer the question but what you are saying now is that from you're perspective you don't need proof anyway.
I'm totally fine with that. I just want some honesty on what people think about their faith and the "proof" they put forward.
- What this thread proves is that life is full of contradictions.....lowimpakt
- You obviously aren't paying attention to what I'm saying. There's no contradiction here.gramme
- I CAN off proof of God's existence, but he doesn't NEED me to prove it in order for him to exist.gramme
- *offer proofgramme
- no. you can't.spifflink
- SPIFFINK! I DID offer proof. Philosophical proof mind you, but pretty clear stuff. You just don't like it.gramme
- philosophical proof =! actual proof. and the philosophical proof isn't that great. i don't like it because its not externally verifiable.spifflink
- we disagree because i don't take things on faith, and you happen to like faith, so there you have it.spifflink
- SteveJobs0
maybe i'm just the laid back type, but why do people get so emotional about religion?
"he called us sinners and is shoving religion down our throats!!!"
who fucking cares? chill out and resume the life you choose to live. why be bothered by someone who's passionate about their beliefs? they and many other radicals/fundamentalists/zealots... have been around since the beginning of time, and will still be around long after your gone.
enjoy the world for what it is and your short time here. :)
now, bad drivers, spammers, pedophiles and fuckers that steal domain names you've searched on? different story.
- lowimpakt0
some people have argued against organised religion as a system because "religion is powerful, influential, tax-exempt and systematically passed on to children too young to defend themselves" and that it is generally divisive.
- calcium0
More pictures of new and cool sea creatures.
Less religion talk.