God is quite busy
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- ********0
- gramme0
lowimpakt, I did answer your question, but I'll put it another way for you. In a word, no. God would not cease to exist if I got stranded on a desert island and got amnesia, because God is not a figment of my imagination. I did not create God; rather, he created me. So, it doesn't matter if I go crazy or my memory becomes wiped clean. His existence does not depend on what I think about it.
I offer proof of God's existence because it is the ultimate "good news". It's worth spreading.
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"some people have argued against organised religion as a system because "religion is powerful, influential, tax-exempt and systematically passed on to children too young to defend themselves" and that it is generally divisive."—Remember that religions are represented by people. Fallen, imperfect people. Tenets of various religions often twist the message of their particular faith to suit their own agendas. Christ is not to blame for the awful things that have been done in his name.
The crushing irony that you guys don't quite seem to get is that EVERYONE passes their ideology on to their children. You just don't like the message of organized religion. But make no mistake: atheism and agnosticism are very much systems of belief. EVERYONE has opinions on life, death, the afterlife, how we should live, etc.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with raising one's children in a tradition of faith. When I was growing up, I was not forced to believe anything. Also, when I was a teenager I was not required to go to church w/ my parents. I was fully able to make decisions for myself. I even stepped away from the faith for many years because I wanted to find truth on my own time and terms. Turns out, God had something else in mind. He chased me down and cornered me until I realized that he is sovereign, and that he reveals HIS truth on HIS terms to those he chooses. Searching for my own truth to suit my own desires is futile and would have ended in despair, death and ultimately damnation.
- wait are you proposing that atheism, whose only tenet is denying that a deity exist, has an organizational structure??spifflink
- everyone has a god, whether they realize it or not. That's my point.gramme
- no, no they don't. that's a pretty absurd assumption. you are attempting to widen the definition of 'god' and it doesnt work.spifflink
- and it has nothing to do with atheism suddenly sprouting a tax-exempt organizational structure in your imagination.spifflink
- spiffink, I humbly suggest you spend more time observing human nature. Everyone worships.gramme
- *sigh*spifflink
- mikotondria30
"ultimately damnation. "....hahahaha - oh woe is you ! WOE !
- Not anymore. We're all headed for the same fate, unless the divine intervenes.gramme
- lowimpakt0
I'm not challenging your faith but you did suggest that "our" existence and "our" "need" to worship is proof of a god and then you went on to say that what "we" think or feel doesn't matter because god preceeds all. This is the contradiction in what you are saying.
This threat to the validity of your argument doesn't prove or disprove anything about god but it makes your suggestion of proof invalid.
The issue of bringing up or indocrinating children to a particular faith isn't that much of a problem for me but it does open up question on the cultural and geopraphic contexts of faith. I am pretty sure if you were born in Japan, Jordan or Jerusalem for example you would be defining everything in different terms or contexts.
- deadfinch0
lol
second comment in this thread sums it all up
- bliznutty0
“You ever noticed how people who believe in Creationism look really unevolved? You ever noticed that? Eyes real close together, eyebrow ridges, big furry hands and feet. "I believe God created me in one day" Yeah, looks like He rushed it.”
- Bill Hicks
- richardkark0
The best evidence that the Christian God exists are those who serve others in love, and the best evidence against the existence is this far-off, anonymous, force-feeding information, disguised in false-humility, trying to outrun a guilt stricken worldview. The author of this thread should be ashamed.
I'm a Christian, but I'm embarrassed by the person who started this thread, but it's cool, because the upside is that it shows how f-d up people are, self included. Sorry guys.
- CrimsonPlatypus0
If god truly existed, we'd have at least seven more varieties of bacon.
- formed0
or be vegetarians?
Everyone is f'd up, I'll agree with that.
Live and let live is our only hope. Let me believe what I want, you believe what you want, but please, please don't tell me about it.
- ********0
"religion is a crutch for weak minded people." Jesse Ventura
- ********0
and its not god buddy, It's nature's design.
- ********0
and its not god buddy, It's nature's design.
- imakethepictures0
Could God make a butt so big that even he couldn't wipe it?
Seriously though, I found it interesting how many more people attended churches in America right after 9/11. A lot of people are searching, it seems. Those who are really looking for answers will eventually find them, one way or the other.
- gramme0
"I'm not challenging your faith but you did suggest that "our" existence and "our" "need" to worship is proof of a god and then you went on to say that what "we" think or feel doesn't matter because god preceeds all. This is the contradiction in what you are saying."
No, no, no, and pay attention this time.
First of all, I agree with richardkark that the best proof of God's existence is the example of people whose lives have been changed by the Holy Spirit, who serve others in love. This is basically the same thing as my earlier mention of the royal law of loving one's neighbor.
Our possession of conscience and need for worship are constant, everpresent, inescapable facts of human existence, whether we choose to acknowledge them or not. The existence of the soul in each person is the reflection of God's image in us. What I am saying is that each person has a soul, and each person has a conscience whether they admit it or not. Similarly, God exists whether we admit it or not. In the words of James: "...even the demons believe—and shudder."
God does not NEED our validation of his existence, but he DOES desire relationships with us. This is why he gave us the Bible, this is why God the Son came to earth to suffer alongside us and then receive in his own flesh the punishment meant for all of us.
- gramme0
For the record, I agree that Georges is setting an embarrassingly bad example.
- metal_leg_will0
Didn't man create god to quell his insecurities of the unknown? Isn't it obvious? Or is that approach too pragmatic/rational?
"...a religion in which an all-powerful god from outer space decided to send his unborn son on a suicide mission to planet Earth? So this space-god impregnates a human female in some mystical, not-quite-physical fashion, and she gives birth to a baby who is both a human being and a divine incarnation, simultaneously the space god’s spawn and the space god himself. (Oh, space god also has a third manifestation, one that’s totally invisible.) So space-god junior is born on Earth destined to be killed, even though he’s a space god and therefore immortal."
- Bill Maher (kind of an ass but makes some interesting observations)
- gramme0
That approach merely denies the possibility that we are created by something greater than ourselves. There is nothing pragmatic about it. Nor is there anything illogical or irrational about believing in God.
Anyone can make any idea or ideology sound absurd through sarcasm. Maher is a misguided, angry man. It's kind of pathetic.
- Is Maher misguided because he doesn't believe in your space-god?metal_leg_will
- maher is about as misguided as devotion to god is desperatespifflink
- Maher did his "research" in all the wrong places, i.e., misguided. Nothing to do w/ my personal belief.gramme
- Maher sets up strawmen by picking out fringe characters from the major religions and pretending they are standard-issue.gramme
- issue.gramme
- ********0
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