Politics
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- ********0
FUCK YEAH!!!!!
ALAN ALADA!!!!!!! YEAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! ALL CAPS!!!! YEAHHHHH!
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Here is what I would like.
• People should not be allowed to live on welfare. Get in a jobs program through a local Junior college or other schools. Generations of families on welfare is unacceptable.
• Move here, assimilate into our culture.
• Buy medical insurance across state lines.
• Cut income tax in states that charge.
• Quit building toll roads.
• Stop paying union workers ridiculous wages. Union workers put out 1/3 less productivity then private employees. For example, A GM factory worker should not make $100,000 a year. I think something in the $50,000 range would be much more realistic with a profit sharing plan for incentive.
• Abolish social security and set up private savings accounts
• Dropping out of high school will not be tolerated.
• Stop the ridiculous wages for city council members.• Pass a law govt employees can not profit from lobbyists or corps while in office.
• Abolish property tax.
• Put a wealth cap per individual at $20,000,000.
• Mandatory that all companies have profit sharing.
• Create a rewards system for low income children, college tax credits for good grades, paid schooling, scholarships, ect.
• Bring all US troops back to American soil. Close US Military bases unless negotiated by said countries.
• Create a world space program.
• Switch from a war economy to a space economy.
• Release TESLA technology.
• Drill for oil in alaska.
• Abolish the FED reserve.
• Apply a silver/gold back currency.
• Get rid of political correctness.
• Govt employees, congress, senators should be arrested if a crime is committed.
• Abolish the IRS and apply a flat tax.
• No prison time for petty crimes.
• Arrest war criminals and financial terrorists.
• Create a high speed rail to europe.
• Encourage home gardens and self sustainability.
- #1: If people are not allowed to live on welfare, and there is a crisis leading to high unemployment...luckyorphan
- ...what happens to those families who cannot be supported?luckyorphan
- #1 then there should be more jobs than people********
- who created the crisis and why? Was it manufactured? Probably.********
- Why do you feel 2-3 generations of family should live in welfare? Like in Cali?********
- In 50 years you can't produce one productive family member?********
- The two do not necessarily go together. What is your solution for those who cannot find work?luckyorphan
- Ramanisky20
you forgot ... for cnaps1970 to jump into an active volcano
- luckyorphan0
Viking, I applaud your honest attempt at a decent list. Mind if I take a few points one by one and ask some questions? I tried to do that on the comment by your post, but I feel that this is a better place.
#1: People should not be allowed to live on welfare. Get in a jobs program through a local Junior college or other schools. Generations of families on welfare is unacceptable.
A scenario that has happened in America within the last two years: Whole sectors of the economy have collapsed, putting thousands out of work. This results in a tax crunch, leading to states and federal gov't short on revenues. The lower revenues results in less money for job programs and community colleges. Classes are closed, teachers are laid off and access to continuing education becomes difficult when it is most needed. What do you propose someone who has a family do without being able to live on welfare?
I agree that generations on welfare is unacceptable. I also believe that profitable corporations on corporate welfare is unacceptable. Given that the gov't spends over $100 billion on corporate welfare are you similarly ticked about corporate welfare...especially for profitable businesses?
Also, do you have any non-biased, controlled and vetted information showing that there is an epidemic of personal welfare leading to generations of families in America?
- ...more to come.luckyorphan
- Tough one. I think there is no problem with reasonable help. If its understood its a privilege that can be afforded. Not used for votes********
- for votes. Im purposefully ignoring the situation we're in for philosophy on ground level********
- because finding best solution with innumerable what ifs and what is's is tough********
- When the tax dollars kill and bene's become a way of life there is a problem. its a fall back like maybe living with parents********
- parents. instead of jsut stayign with them. fuck big corp tax deals. yes they can create jobs they also can create profits********
- its all about the "real"logic behind it instead of a PR soundbyte. but once agian how can soemone know with out edu and team play********
- edu and team bias... also i know not a 100% of people will be hlped soem people who deserve help get fucked********
- thats life. you cant control it without ruining the best. liek educated to the lowest common denominator********
- first of all peopel need to know and understand there will be hard luck tales of ppl getting fucked. once they accept that objectively it iwll make things better********
- objectively it will make things better.********
- ppl need to get over the sob storys used for votes. Get over emotion you can make better rational decisions********
- and to comment on this situation we're in i think its a private property grab by corp america. ppl played into their game, fucked situation all around********
- game. fucked situation all around. gov cant afford to help ppl, ppl need help. shits crumbling********
- and it likely will have a faster recovery without helping unless we jsut make up money on china dime and never plan to pay for it********
- pay for it********
- and still the created wealth will have top be paid for in blood by war or soem other method.********
- the money explanation of making money and gold standards in faust was great********
- sorry vike just chiming in where i can vent and fact check my own logic********
- luckyorphan0
Viking Rule #2. Move here, assimilate into our culture.
How do you define "our culture"? As you've no doubt noticed over the years, the definition of American culture changes fluidly. Given the first amendment which allows for freedom of speech and the right of assembly, how do you control for what American culture is?
I sense, however, that at the core of your rule is the ideal that everyone speak English. I tend to agree that capable communication makes one a more beneficial member of society, and allows for more tolerance, empathy and understanding, as well as marginally greater safety.
That being said, communication can happen in many ways. Given that we are living in a more and more multi-cultural world, wouldn't it stand to reason that Americans should become multi-lingual like the rest of the world that keeps passing us by in terms of education standards?
- culture is like borders, and race. Its a social thing. not objective or rational and is completely relative to viewer********
- im against the idea of a single culture knowing some create harm liek gang culture and such. its a adaptable trait depandent on situation********
- depending on situation. someitmes mexi gang is the better way to live. u fix the other stuff it will fix itself********
- and i hate all i know how to speak is english and read spanish. man id liek to understand faust in german********
- culture is like borders, and race. Its a social thing. not objective or rational and is completely relative to viewer
- luckyorphan0
Viking Rule #5: Stop paying union workers ridiculous wages. Union workers put out 1/3 less productivity then private employees. For example, A GM factory worker should not make $100,000 a year. I think something in the $50,000 range would be much more realistic with a profit sharing plan for incentive.
What makes that a ridiculous wage? On what do you base your "$50,000 range"? Is that in all American cities? Or would you adjust that for cities in which it is more expensive to live? Or should factories only exist in low-cost states?
As I'm sure you know, wages have remained stagnant for the last thirty years in America (thanks in large part due to the continuing waning power of unions), while the cost of living has gone up considerably. Only access to and abuse of credit cards have kept the standard of living in American homes at a moderate level, and we see where that has gotten the country.
To me, the real question is, why haven't wages in the private sector kept up with the cost of living while corporate profits have skyrocketed, income distribution has been blown way out of proportion, pensions have become a thing of the past and health care become astronomically expensive?
As far as I'm concerned, $100k for a factory worker is about right, if not a little low. The rest of the American work force should be brought UP to be in line with those standards that established a strong working and middle class over fifty years ago. Instead, today the average CEO makes 430 times as much as their average production worker. In 1965, the average CEO made 24 times as much. You cannot convince me that this is doesn't make sense.
Those who have the money, do what they can to keep the money, and get more of it.
- Oops...#6, I mean.luckyorphan
- unions are free market but the methods behind them are terrible. coercion, political handouts, laws and regulation********
- i cant say wby my beliefs not to have unions. they can do good, but mostly used for profiteering/votes********
- i think companies should stand up and kick union workers if they make them unprofitable and people should support it instead of saying these poor workers********
- if not it makes unprofitable compaines liek gm and union officals get tax payer handouts. when unions become hoffa gangs its time to draw a line********
- What evidence are you basing this on, DB? Good to see you again, btw.luckyorphan
- gangs its time to draw a line. pay is determined by both peopel not one side. its mutual. and if that relationship is held withotu coercion im good********
- is held with outcoercion im okay. even if its high as long as if the co. errors arent paid by other people********
- sry lucky was ranting. what evidence.. what specifically were u looking for on the subject? i was ranting so not sure excat specific********
- sure exact specific********
- "They can do good, but mostly used for profiteering/votes." You're basing this on factual info?luckyorphan
- cant do it without generalizing. but i put forth the amount of private unions declining and increase in public********
- and the history with jimmy hoffa and all union philosophy from mafia to whatever.********
- there is money to be made while compensating those you rule. however the well always will run dry when it gets too large********
- large. in this case the public sector no being able to afford the the demands of the labor. in this case its best for scabs to get employed********
- get employed. they fight hard agaisnt scabs to coerce their will. its fucked up.********
- if a man says hey i can work for less, especially becuas ei need work. its jsut wrong for unions to pressure agaisnt that********
- the unions ultimate goal is to have enough labor that no one will work, but still the well will be dry********
- and somethign will have to break. much like the WI stuff. Hank stamper would have soemthign to say********
- luckyorphan0
Viking Rule #8: Dropping out of high school will not be tolerated.
That is against the concept of personal freedom and especially the U.S. Constitution. Do you plan to amend it? If so, how do you plan to enforce such a law? Will Americans be required to continue to attend school until they graduate? What if they are uncooperative? Will you fine them? If so, and they cannot work yet, what if they cannot pay? Do you imprison them? Draft them into military or national service? If so, how do you intend to pay for such enforcement?
Needless to say, this one's a doozy.
- public education is a privilege and its the persons choice to wrok or continue or stagnate********
- i think its mainly deals with welfare and drug slinging tax free********
- its however a freedom and with less incentive in other areas i think peopel will find it better to get an education or work to support family********
- support family based on their own decision. its their decision, the freedom thing. the HC tax would come up with soemthign liek this********
- liek this. not too mention if a kid doesnt want to be there he only hurts the ones their********
- public education is a privilege and its the persons choice to wrok or continue or stagnate
- luckyorphan0
Viking Rule #10: Pass a law govt employees can not profit from lobbyists or corps while in office.
This is already a law and it is in effect. Several public officials have been arrested, tried and sentenced for such behavior, including former Congressman Randy "Duke" Cunningham of California: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp…
Their spouses, on the other hand, are fair game.
- and the definiton of profiting is highly suspect and hopefully goes in front of a un biased judge********
- a free lunch among friends can be blown out of proportion with media these days. and could hurt career of judge if he goes wrong way********
- goes wrong way. back to a better educated populace in distilling media********
- and by better edu i mean teaching kids how to think with reason logic and philosophy isntead of just facts. philosphy doesnt come until college********
- doesnt come until college when the majority of peopel have already gotten set in their ways********
- and the definiton of profiting is highly suspect and hopefully goes in front of a un biased judge
- mathinc0
Can we please have cnaps arrested, raped with rusty axe handles, or just simply banned? I'd take 200 DrBombays over this fuckup and I can't even fucking stand DrBombay. What a childish twit this guy is. I'll bet you guys would take me back in a heart beat over this fucker and I used to be the 'bad guy.'
- haha i liek csnap better becuase the logical fallacies are far mor eentertaing then unfunny insults********
- or your grammer and spellign sucks. but with that said csnaps does promot eignorance without explanation********
- Well at least that's true. I poke my head in every once in a while and everytime I do I see this cunt acting like he's 10.mathinc
- yup soem novelty fun. the only thing bugs me is spamming a thread back a page when there is important discussion********
- its too hard to keep up back pages and the peopel u talking with likely wont. which makes for no understanding********
- haha i liek csnap better becuase the logical fallacies are far mor eentertaing then unfunny insults
- luckyorphan0
Viking Rule #12: Put a wealth cap per individual at $20,000,000.
Very interesting idea. I assume this is an annual cap, yes? Or is that just the most money any individual can have? Or does that include personal wealth in terms of valuables (property, belongings, etc.)? If so, how do you monitor that? And does the rest of the income they earn go directly to the government/public?
Not sure I agree or disagree...and I think that dollar amount could go down a tad. But I like your thinking here.
- i disagree. i get the idea. but all it does is create incentive to buy polticians. and legal loopholes********
- it wouldnt do anythign different then tax laws. hell the more the rich make the more they pay in tax for 90% of people********
- i have no problem with the a small percentage of inasen rich. its natural. much liek the best basketball players vs world********
- i dont like the influence they use and the gatekeepers beign politicans who accept it and profit from it liek a pimp********
- It would be your asset wealth through out your lifetime********
- Anything made over that CAP mark would have to be given away to said charities********
- No man needs $1 Billion dollars. It is those men that corrupt our system.********
- i disagree. i get the idea. but all it does is create incentive to buy polticians. and legal loopholes
- ********0
and still i havent received the email im waiting on... but still fun
- ********0
I think a lot of the disagreements boil down to whether you judge things objectively or based on ideology. Old school conservatism was largely based on reason, but the newer wave of conservatives whether neocon or tea party seem to ignore facts a lot of times and rely only on ideology.
Ironically its a lot like communism - communists were fanatical about making everyone equal regardless of the consequences, tea party conservatives are fanatical about taxes and less government intervention even if it has negative effects on society.
It goes back and forth but nowadays liberals are more likely to be the objective problem solvers and conservatives more likely to be ideologically driven.
- i agree. i really do. i hate the fantacism. why i try to sell the philosophy. i dont agree with the logical fallacies both present********
- present as headline news. my ideology relies in the truth is all that matters and understanding it so you know when to compromise********
- compromise however that doesnt sell papers or make for tv talkshows********
- and i hate this bi-polar news and team bias in the media outlets that produce news in 144 characters. old debates would last for hours********
- would last for hours up to six hours with breaks where the public would come and listen to it all and weigh it better********
- neil postman covers it really well in amusing ourselves to death********
- ABT. Your comment is an ideology, not based on fact.********
- i agree. i really do. i hate the fantacism. why i try to sell the philosophy. i dont agree with the logical fallacies both present
- ********0
Let's keep this thread classy, okkkkkkkk!
- locustsloth0
Viking wrote:
"• Pass a law govt employees can not profit from lobbyists or corps while in office.`
• Put a wealth cap per individual at $20,000,000.
• Create a rewards system for low income children, college tax credits for good grades, paid schooling, scholarships, ect.
• Govt employees, congress, senators should be arrested if a crime is committed.
• Encourage home gardens and self sustainability."You see, this is great. Viking, whom i never would have thought i'd agree with on anything, puts out 5 ideas that i agree with. Sure, there are others i completely disagree with, but ti think it's awesome, and also key to our future as a country, that we can find common ground.
As for what i'd like to see a president do... well, it couldn't be done by one president. And maybe not at all.
You could some it up as "There are no generalities, everything is specific". i think the problems that a lot of the rhetoric is addressing, and also causes, is due to trying to paint the whole country with the same broad brush. Even in our federal government you have an elected few trying to represent an overwhelming number of constituents (ex. CA has 54 people representing 36 million).
What i'd like to see (and wonder if it would work) is the localizing of power and autonomy for communities. i think that if communities (towns, cities, etc) can directly effect how they live their lives, rather than it averaging out across the nation, people will have more of a vested interest in getting involved in the way their localities are governed. i also think that it's more likely to foster compassion for people in situations other than your own. If you understand that a vote you make is going to directly effect someone you see and maybe even interact with every day, rather than some phantom characiture of a person in some other state, you are more likely to abandon the generalities of ideology and consider the specifics of another human's situation.
i believe that it is integral to our way forward that we realize we are all in this shit together, even when we disagree. That family who needs food stamps aren't some low-life's; they are you, tryig to feed themselves. That business owner isn't some money grubbing profiteer; they are you trying to be successful. When people become other-oriented and put themselves in someone else's place, they gain a new understanding for one another and that understanding is the key to not only compromise, but collaboration.
i agree that political correctness is stupid, in what it has become. Again, it's a broad brush measure trying to solve specific problems. THat's why i think of PC as Personal Consideration. If you think that saying something or doing something is fine even though it's not PC, sit in front of someone it directly impacts or refers to. If you have so little consideration for a fellow human that you would willingly insult them, in my book, YOU are the one not worth considering.
i think both religion needs to stay out of politics. Religion and faith are a personal thing, and should be kept personal. i shouldn't be able to prohibit your beliefs and you shouldn't be able to force yours on me and vice-versa. There should be no policy written or influenced by religious dogma; it's arbitrary and subjective.
i think all lobbying needs to be in the open and available for everyone to hear, read, and understand. If your company wants to try and convince a politician to vote a certain way, have at it. Just know that your influence is there for everyone to see and they can decide whether or not they want to give you business in light of your attempted influence.
i think that the problem with welfare/public assistance is the cliff that people on public assistance inevitably get to.There is a wide gulf between the points at which families and indivduals need assistance and where they can truly make it on their own. i know this first hand. This, i believe, is what demotivates people to get off public assistance. They see taht once they get past point A, they get cut off and the forward motion they were able to garner with assistance is slowed, if not halted.i'd write more, but i really need to get some work done.
Thank you Viking and deathboy and luckyorphan for having the courage to plainly and calmly state your opinions without vitriol. This is a much more enjoyable thread (though more time consuming) this way.
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Obama gives awards, parties while world burns
http://www.wral.com/news/politic…
- bush did it while ACTIVELY being involved in 2 wars
http://www.neh.gov/n…locustsloth - Was he supposed to cure all the ills of N Africa and the Middle East in that hour he took?locustsloth
- whats with this comparing obama to BUsh? its a sad excuse. Obama is just as corrupted and indifferent.********
- bush did it while ACTIVELY being involved in 2 wars
- ********0
- ohhhh no he wasn't targeting a US Airman, not at all...!********
- Of course he did, stupid. One person's act doesn't condemn the whole damn religion thoughlocustsloth
- which is, certainly, what you are implyinglocustsloth
- ohhhh no he wasn't targeting a US Airman, not at all...!
- locustsloth0
So no worthwhile input form you, 1790? Just more copy and paste? Why not? i know it can be intimidating putting your ideals out there for everyone to see, but surely someone who feels as strongly as you do has an idea of what he wants his country to be like and operate like.
- QBN0
cnaps, please curb the replications.
- thank youlocustsloth
- yup thanksRamanisky2
- NO thanks!********
- Yes, Thanks!
Josev - actually it was to prove we are two different people, ha ha********
