Politics
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- DrBombay0
A very high volume of Americans are speaking out right now.
Please wait a moment and try again.
http://www.americaspeakingout.co… haha- fucking wow.
translation: we are getting clowned hard as fuck n doing some damage control.BonSeff
- fucking wow.
- ukit0
The funny thing is, it's mostly people who ARE free, living a comfortable upper middle class existence, that have the time to get philosophical on this subject.
Go back and ask the black kid in the 50s who grew up being told he can't eat at the same restaurant as you what he thinks.
^ Here we got black people being dragged out of a whites only restaurant. You guys would be standing by nodding thoughtfully.
^ Early teabaggers
- You know that the year is 2010 now right?mathinc
- You really don't give a shit about any of this do you? Sad.ukit
- How do you figure that? I just spent like half an hour contributing to the dialog while you dug up hateful pictures frommathinc
- 60 years ago. Do you think any of this would happen today if civil rights was repealed?mathinc
- Not to the same extent, but yeah, I lived in the South and there are some racist motherfuckers down thereukit
- Anyway, you're hijacking the argument in terms of "if it's repealed today." Rand's whole point was that it never should have been implemented to begin with.ukit
- have been implemented to begin with.ukit
- Not the whole thing. Don't make this orange out to be a banana. Come on meow.mathinc
- :Dmathinc
- He said he would have voted for it. No?mathinc
- The part he didn't like was the only thing stopping the image to your left from happening.ukit
- You're being dramatic and false.mathinc
- ukit0
More pictures here...gives you a sense of what was really going on at the time
- I don't think anyone is saying that the Civil Rights Movement wasn't a necessary thing. That was some evil shit people did.mathinc
- Really, thats funny, deathboy said on the previous page it was a "necessary evil"ukit
- It is exactly that. You think having to create a law making everyone equal isn't a necessary evil?? Really?mathinc
- ukit0
Woman being dragged out a library for trying to read a book.
- ukit0
Bill Buckley (who founded The National Review) was considered the most prominent libertarian/conservative "academic" at the time. Had some strong opinions against the Civil Rights Bill:
"The axiom... Everyone in America is entitled to the vote.... That, of course, is demagogy.... The great majority of the Negroes of the South who do not vote do not care to vote, and would not know for what to vote if they could...
"The central question that emerges... is whether the White community in the South is entitled to take such measures as are necessary to prevail, politically and culturally, in areas where it does not predominate numerically? The sobering answer is Yes – the White community is so entitled because, for the time being, it is the advanced race."
- mathinc0
'What other race would want to roll back the civil rights act?'
I think you're kind of missing the point. Again, I'm not sold on the idea, I haven't really walked it through my head enough. But let me ask you a few questions then. What's going to be all that different then what it is now if civil rights was eliminated? Which I don't think anyone is saying anyways I'm just asking for the most extreme case. Do you think businesses are going to stop serving minorities or stop hiring them? I seriously doubt that. I think every intelligent person knows that the civil right act was necessary to get us to where we are now. But when and how do you finally say, 'Okay, we're ready to take off the training wheels and ride?' I think that's the question being discussed and it's an interesting one. Sure racists are going to latch on to this idea for their own reasons but I don't think KKK or Black Panther members are titans of industry either so they're just a very impotent yet loud portion of the equation.
'What freedoms have you lost due to the civil rights movement?'
None. But again that's not really the point. The Civil Rights movement is EXACTLY what we needed at that time. But is it still applicable today? Or is it time to say, 'We're on equal footing, the government did the right thing for all of it's people and now the onus is on the people themselves to make their decisions'?
I'm just illustrating what I think the argument is, and probably not doing a great job of it. I think repealing discrimination laws is probably a bad idea overall, while I think there would be abuse, I would guess that it would be pretty minor. I do think that it would be a very positive thing for minorities though. Like I said earlier, what long-term damage do you think has been done by virtually telling minorities that they're only treated equally because of laws, not because they are in fact equal? Imagine raising a daughter and telling her every morning that she's not as good as her sister. What kind of damage do you think that would do?
- ukit0
Rand Paul didn't mention anything about that part of the Civil Rights Bill being rolled back, although I guess it could have been implied?
He said it was wrong in the first place.
- its kind of funny. to think about it all i know is rand paul didnt agree with everything in civil right********
- and that parts infringe on other rights. has he even talked a lot or discussed it?********
- ... nvm being optimistic again. if he did it would only hurt his political career...********
- Ah, OK, so you have no idea what you're talking about?ukit
- i know what im talking about and got caught up in explaining what i think RP was thinking.********
- i was just thinking about how he hasnt had a good opportunity to explain and media bit in causing this kind of discussion********
- of discussion. jsut taking a step back and looking at it from a new perspective********
- its kind of funny. to think about it all i know is rand paul didnt agree with everything in civil right
- ********0
Well for one doc people have lost the ability to decide/discriminate freely. It is their right. They should be able to make the decision without worrying about lawsuit based on pretext or no pretext. People should be able to hire and fire without always asking themselves will someone think im doing this because of race. Its fucked up that people have to always be concerned for what others might think and base their decisions around those instead of basing it on what they believe to be right. Making people focus on race that much more. But hey doc youre making me begin to think RP was being too optimistic. I mean look at you doc everytime someone criticizes the president you quickly jump to race and say its because hes black. Without even deciding if theres merit to the criticism. You are highly concerned with race doc and i dont know if thats because its the easier thing to choose or what. In all our conversations today you seemed to believe i was being racially motivated or insinuating it. And also looking at Maddow and all the posts with peoples reactions and how they immediately turn it into a race issue, while ignoring that the subject is about equal rights. I'm beginning to think maybe most people arn't ready for that freedom now. People will just continue to lie or make excuses to cover up anything that seems to be racially discriminating,true or not...which then i guess would lead back to you doc who will assume its all about the race as the underlying motive... and we'll have a nice little loop. So doc i guess you win if thats what you want hear or something, but you have made me change my mind. people are likely just not ready. Its simply a optimists folly in todays setting.
However im betting on comedy.Thinking our best chances to get over race are with comedians. Maybe theyll saturate the field with race and other physical characteristics like fat, skinny, big ears, hair color, and through that with large enough audience can break these ridiculous social taboos. So that people begin to think of race as no more then a physical characteristic.
- and doc im fully aware how you like attention in such debates when all contribute is insults. eat up my friend.********
- haha great post db.mathinc
- and doc im fully aware how you like attention in such debates when all contribute is insults. eat up my friend.
- locustsloth0
"what long-term damage do you think has been done by virtually telling minorities that they're only treated equally because of laws, not because they are in fact equal? "
But isn't the law addressing other peoples PERCEPTION of equality, not whether everyone is equal? i have no frame of reference, being as caucasian as they come, but i'd imagine you could fairly easily find people of non-caucasian ethnicities that still encounter racism on a regular basis.
And remember that this isn't just African-Americans that are benefiting from the law. How much discrimination do you think perfectly law-abiding citizens of Middle Eastern descent have been feeling since 2001? You can view footage of the fringe nutjob section of Tea Party events to see that discrimination for that group of people is alive and kicking.
i agree that at some point it should be lifted, but i haven't seen or heard data that makes me think now is the time.
- ukit0
Am I the only non white person in this thread? LOL
Have fun eating in the f*cking diner guys, I'll be waiting here outside.
- ukit0
It's amazing to see what was pushed over the years in the name of "freedom."
I was looking at this, only 11 years before I was born that the Federal Government forced states to invalidate "miscegenation" laws (that races can't intermarry).
And of course it was framed as a federalism/ freedom argument:
"The court argued that it was the duty of the state to protect marriage as a public institution. Therefore the freedom of states to prohibit whites and blacks from marrying each other could not be infringed."
- BonSeff0
paul simply stated he doesn't feel any racism in his bones and thinks racism sucks basically, but private business have the right to discriminate. and for some dumb fucking reason he thinks in our society shit will level out on their own, well history has proved it will not. he plays the - just don't visit their business card.. that is really easy to say but he hasn't lived in every neighborhood in the whole he is encompassing. out of touch mother fuck. fuck him and any one who agrees. shake yourselves and look around.
- Tend to agree.. the whole 'well the free market will wash it clean' is a little too optimistic for me. But I do get it.mathinc
- getting it in theory.. ok
seeing it in practice, not going to happen.BonSeff - but all these constitutionalists think that it is a good idea, while living in their fucking bubble.BonSeff
- imho why the new gop site has shut down, reality caught up with those dumb fucks and they ran out of resources to moderateBonSeff
- Generalizing?mathinc
- of course. moving out of your immediate life situation is absolutely generalizing.BonSeff
- i do it, you do it.
problem is our elected officials do not.BonSeff - they generalize their asses off. and pander like sluts. i think we both get this premiseBonSeff
- I was asking if you were generalizing about the 'constitutionalists' and their 'bubbles'.mathinc
- Sorry I think my initial generalizing question got stuck in the middle somewhere. I keep forgetting these notes don'tmathinc
- really work like the flow of real conversation. I hate these fucking notes by the way. I'm constantly counting lines and losingmathinc
- losing my point making sure shit is going to fit in this fucking box.mathinc
- ha, actually no - that was pretty focusedBonSeff
- Ah, well that might be. I think these new exotic politicians are the ones in bubbles. :) The new Andrew Jacksons.mathinc
- mathinc0
locustsloth,
I don't see the law protecting the perception of equality as much as mandating the reality of equality in things that involve survival (employment, businesses not being able to turn you away, housing). Which are all good, positive things. I just wonder how much would change if the mandate was lifted. I do think you're right that now is not the time but there should be a time when we can finally say that we're equal and have it be enforced at the citizen level, not the federal level. Frankly it's kind of embarrassing that we need laws for this kind of shit nowadays anyways. I live in California though, so I might not witness the racism that is probably still alive and well.
- locustsloth0
"Frankly it's kind of embarrassing that we need laws for this kind of shit nowadays anyways"
i agree 100%.
- ukit0
I don't get for a second the importance of repealing the Civil Rights Bill. A bill that basically just says, you can't throw people out of your public business based on race. Private organizations are still allowed to discriminate all they want.
Where's the issue?
- ukit0
Other parts of the bill are banning voting tests and making sure schools and buses aren't segregated.
You're really telling me you can't imagine a scenario where the mayor of some town in Alabama or hey, Tennessee, decides to implement a voting test? Oh wait...
- 1 is a tragedy 1 million not doing it is a statistic.********
- see what i did there********
- 1 is a tragedy 1 million not doing it is a statistic.
- BRNK0
There is a simple and major fact being ignored in this discussion: When it comes to race in America equal rights among all races is not the same as fair treatment. A majority group will always exploit a minority group. You can argue this until you're blue in the face (and I'm sure you will), but history provides plenty of evidence of this. If you think that just because it's not social acceptable to shout the n word on the street, we live in a discrimination-free country, then you simply don't know enough about racial discrimination in this country. There is a reason ghettos exist. There is a reason race lines and class lines lie so closely together.
Do you guys realize the hypocrisy and absurdity of arguing that not being allowed to restrict minorities' freedoms is an impingement upon yours? It boggles my mind that rather than strive for a government that holds men to a higher standard than any of us could achieve on our own, some people are happy rather to craft it to our weaknesses.
And finally, because this morsel was just too good to let die in a comment on the previous page:
"Seems academical enough for discussion." -deathboy- *socially accetpableBRNK
- LOL, dissing on grammar while failing at spelling. Acceptable. -_-BRNK
- HAHAHA, it was still pretty damn funnyukit
- hey get the context right. academical enough for discussion liek hawkings and aliens********
- and your post makes no sense were not arguing about not being allowed to restrict minorities freedoms.********
- Yes you areukit
- from that i can conclude you have no idea what i am saying.********
- really! ukit your jsut as bad as doc. you cant see past race either in what im tryign to discuss********
- which i hoope you read how i said i retract what i was thinking as being possible becuase peopel liek you made me realize its still too soon********
- realize its still too soon********
- have to wait for a second renaiassance or age of reason********
- Will that be a "whites only" age of reason?ukit
- id like to humor you but i dont think your joking.********
- Ukit, get off it. FFS, no one here is talking about limiting anyone's rights or that it's okay to be racist. Grow up.mathinc
- ukit0
$10 says you guys wouldn't give a shit about this issue anyway if say, Tom Tancredo, instead of Rand Paul was the one who said it.
Rand Paul = cool because he's Ron Paul's son. That's some deep thinking right there.
- i sized up tancredo as soon as he opened his hole on the borderBonSeff
- Keep sticking your head in the sand ukit.********
- BonSeff0
^ incase you dumb fucks missed the premise, the above references the out of touch a-holes writing policies about immigration and how large distribution hubs hook us up with $2.35 tomatoes, but at the same time bitch about how we are losing our country. fuck you. get a grip.