Politics
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- DrBombay0
SumWork, do you just make up fucking facts?
- Sumwurk..please feel free to move to the Capitalist Utopian Paradise of Thailand.********
- Because we all know that Thailand leads the world.********
- Best place ever.********
- The US Census is a liberal conspiracy. THEY"RE TAKING OUR JOBS!DrBombay
- IF YOU SEE A CENSUS WORKER DON'T HESITATE! SHOOT THE COMMIE BASTARD!********
- I think your chart proves my point, actually. Thank you.********
- Sumwurk..please feel free to move to the Capitalist Utopian Paradise of Thailand.
- mathinc0
I really should be working. I have way too much to do today, but I wanted to share a little perspective here.
In the real natural world there are winners and losers. The idea of society helps to equalize that harsh reality to some degree but the real truth is that just as in beasts of nature some make it some don't. There are variables that we're born with (born into poverty or affluence; natural intelligence or lack thereof) and variables that we shape (work ethic, character and relationship building come to mind). But to think that we all need to be equal in every facet is a farce, it's extreme idealism, it's unattainable. Our system is sometimes flawed but what system isn't? At the very least our system is aimed at keeping things like race, sex, sexual orientation and religious belief from limiting your possibilities. Our base political economic system strives to give everyone a similar starting point, and it's pretty much up to you what you do from there.
If you took the nations money supply and distributed it evenly what do you think would happen over the course of 10 years? I'm pretty certain you'd have upper class, middle class and poverty. It's natural. Is it fair? Is anything in life truly fair?
Okay back to work.
- Are you arguing against imaginary people again?DrBombay
- Was the point completely lost on you?mathinc
- The point that you completely argue against strawmen?DrBombay
- But hey, go ahead, knock yourself out. If you're on the clock, you're wasting someones money. I work for myself so I'mmathinc
- on my own dime here.mathinc
- I love how you try to act like you are so much smarter than everyone else, yet can't see that you argue points that no one brought up or has disputed most of the time.DrBombay
- one brought up or has disputed most of the time.DrBombay
- Did you read the word 'perspective'.. generally denotes an unrequested opinion. So no, not an argument.mathinc
- Get back to work so you can pay for my free health care! THEY TOOK OUR JOBS!DrBombay
- If you work somewhere Rick, then you're getting your economic readjustment every day while you do nothing on thismathinc
- site. You should be happy with life. Someone else is paying you to not do anything, I just hope they know about it.mathinc
- If you lose on content, make it personal Tommy. Way to go.DrBombay
- haha okay then answer this.. in all these notes have you talked about the content of the post? :-/mathinc
- You change the fucking subject every post.DrBombay
- I guess it's never your fault that you're a fucking idiot.mathinc
- johndiggity0
i think he meant to say "corporate" tax rates, of which the us ranks fourth highest and is a reason american companies move corporate offices (and jobs) offshore.
- They don't give a shit about that. They honestly have no realization that corporate tax rates effect them too.mathinc
- Again, making up opponents and their opinions.DrBombay
- or credit for that matter...johndiggity
- DrBombay0
And those darn wages they have to pay workers here are higher too, don't forget that part.
- yes, if you notice i said "a reason" not "the reason", but that was very astute of you to point out.johndiggity
- ukit0
This is exactly what I mean about not being evidence-based
You may not like it, you can't escape the fact that the last 30 years have been dominated by right wing economic policies. The free market reforms the tea partiers are stark raving mad Obama hasn't implemented have already been put in place, we're living with the results.
And the results for the most part suck. Standards of living have fallen, inequality has increased dramatically and the debt has risen from a few hundred billion to several trillion. The original George Bush was right: it's voodoo economics to think that you can slash taxes without reining in spending and expect the economy to catapult ahead of that somehow.
You can't escape that so you kids revert to the argument that not everyone can be equal...well no shit...last time I checked no one here is advocating Communism, just a return to sensible economic policies.
We don't need socialism or libertarianism, just a sensible balanced policy that achieves economic growth not decline. This would involve paying down the debt (probably by repealing the Bush tax cuts and cutting spending) and giving a leg up to the middle class because believe or not social spending does have long term positive effects.
- and buy cutting spending are u suggesting cutting healthcare/medi's/ss stuff along with defense and gov payroll.********
- tough to do when politcians run on the bases of offering more and more, liek the huge chunk of change for healthcare********
- and buy cutting spending are u suggesting cutting healthcare/medi's/ss stuff along with defense and gov payroll.
- BonSeff0
Think that is going to be difficult to do while being engaged in 2 wars.
Another thing that really pisses me off is our debt to china and that we have no idea what the terms are. i have no doubt it includes some sort of trade clause that will keep mfg jobs out of our country. I've never pretended to be an economist, but I don't see how we can rebound as a country when we consume goods that are constantly imported and we aren't building shit to export. to me it is as simple as that import/export ledger
- ********0
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal..."
- Thomas Jefferson, US Declaration of Indpendence"In the real natural world there are winners and losers.to think that we all need to be equal in every facet is a farce, it's extreme idealism, it's unattainable."
-mathinc, American, 21st CenturyAnd this is why we fail. America no longer believes in itself. All of you bought the Reagen schtick.
slow clap.
- All of you run around with your little lives. Sad. Lost what once made us great.********
- ha! jefferson was s slave owner. not even he believed it. get over yourself.johndiggity
- +2, diggity ;)PonyBoy
- All of you run around with your little lives. Sad. Lost what once made us great.
- mathinc0
So what you're saying is that 'all men are created equal' means that 'all men need to be equal?'
Besides, did you see the part where Jefferson said, 'created'? I agree, we're all for the most part created equal. My fucking point, which you are either avoiding on purpose or didn't somehow digest when you read the post is that to try and force equality throughout a persons whole life is in fact "extreme idealism, it's unattainable."
I really dislike when people think that 'all men created equal' means that 'everyone must be equal'.. it doesn't. That's not the spirit of his statement. The spirit of the statement is that no man should have less rights than another. I know I know, he had slaves.. but the spirit of the sentiment is what it is. If you really think it means that if my neighbor gets a steak then I should equally get.. a steak.
I feel the same way when people say that 'promote the general welfare' means that somehow government was supposed to provide for us: healthcare, food, etc. It doesn't mean that. It was meant that Congress can provide laws that promote general welfare that transcends state law.. providing laws for a nation as opposed to laws provided by the state.
"And this is why we fail." Oh really? I think we fail because the general Americans reading comprehension has gone to shit these days.
- i'm more equeler than you all arez.PonyBoy
- So national education and health care shouldn't be goals for a democratic country?Mimio
- You speak like the dozens of other industrialized nations don't have a functioning system.Mimio
- That's not what I said. There are obviously things that we're provided that help us as a nation. But to say that we all mustmathinc
- have access to the same lifestyle is idealistic. That's not the 'equality' that Jefferson was talking about. That's all I'm saying.mathinc
- saying.mathinc
- Name a group who is saying we all should are guaranteed the same lifestyle. You can't, again...DrBombay
- your constant yapping on this forum screams that, dobsPonyBoy
- Fuck off Kevin, you do a good share of yapping.DrBombay
- :)
This mean we're friends again?PonyBoy - No, again your ideology gets in the way of you being a good friend to people.DrBombay
- please elaborate on my ideology and why it makes me a bad friendPonyBoy
- You lack compassion and all you care about is money.DrBombay
- You mocked your friends' bad breaks.DrBombay
- Is that enough yet?DrBombay
- mathinc is correct. we establish equal rights and we're equal in that regard alone. healthcare isnt a right, nor is education.********
- but peopel should see a strong education is the only thign that can keep those equal rights. why i dont mind tax money going to that. last thign i need is gangs of kids robbing my hoem while im at work********
- for edu. unfortunately not all people are smart enough to see that so its mandated, not very nice, but a necessary evil********
- DrBombay0
"feel the same way when people say that 'promote the general welfare' means that somehow government was supposed to provide for us: healthcare, food, etc. It doesn't mean that. It was meant that Congress can provide laws that promote general welfare that transcends state law.. providing laws for a nation as opposed to laws provided by the state."
Dude, who in the fuck is saying that the government should provide us with free healthcare, food etc? No one is fucking advocating this. You fight arguments against non-existent opponents. You truly are a fucking idiot.
- ********0
- Jazx, your taxes never went up, you know that right?DrBombay
- the taxes on those who employ and provide us work did... you think they're going to eat that? no... it trickles down, dobby.PonyBoy
- if they did... sorry... i meant to say 'if' the rich were taxed... that shit always trickles downPonyBoy
- the f*ck they will not! it's just begun...********
- Fed cut taxes. 30 states have raised them as of January, your anger is misplaced.DrBombay
- Doesn't surprise me.DrBombay
- and when taxes are raised on those who own businesses etc... they either cut their employees pay or their jobs...PonyBoy
- ... all-together...
... tell me how hitting up the wealthy for cash does anyone any good.PonyBoy - That wasn't business taxes I was citing.DrBombay
- It pays for things. The money isn't coming out of the working class anymore. It has to come from somewhere.DrBombay
- you are talking in hypotheticals. Circle back after April 15th FFSBonSeff
- most small business file their taxes on their individual returns. most business in america are small business...johndiggity
- So state taxes went up, but keep riding the fed gov for their nonexistent tax increase.DrBombay
- Be pissed about taxes if you like, but at least know the fucking truth about them.DrBombay
- my point exactlyjohndiggity
- ********0
- ********0
- ********0
For First Time, Plurality Believes Stimulus Plan Hurt the Economy
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/…
- BonSeff0
According to the non-partisan Center for Public Integrity, Rasmussen has been a paid consultant for the RNC and President Bush’s 2004 campaign. The RNC paid Rasmussen $95,500 between 2003 and 2004 for items listed as “survey,” “survey cost” and “voter data.” Bush’s campaign paid Rasmussen $45,500 for “survey research.”
- ********0
I maintain what I said above and I'm right. Your charts prove that.
- ukit0
"US business and capital gains taxes are among the highest in the world."
This chart specifically shows that capital gains are not among the highest. So, yea, on that point, you were wrong.
It's all irrelevant though to an extent, because if you look back at what I said, it was that personal income taxes are historically low. Which is 100% true.
By the way, do you know what 1/3 of the stimulus was? Tax cuts! If a Republican had implemented that policy (as Bush did) you nincompoops would be saying it was the greatest idea of all time.
- version30
141 posts to extinction
- ********0
What do you all honestly think about this?
- ukit0
Anyway, the larger point is that right wingers have been in charge for the past three decades. They've created the economic paradigm we are currently in. If you are so pissed about the state of things, it's a bit idiotic to reelect them and hope for a better result.
- Conservatives are fucking idiots.DrBombay
- I hate to say it, but yea, it seems like itukit
- fucking idiots who can take care of themselves and don't call losing a job a 'tragedy'... but an opportunity...PonyBoy
- oh shit... there i go w/my ideology again :)PonyBoy
- Get off my balls, Kevin.DrBombay
- You fucking called it a tragedy anyway and used quote marks for some reason, you dumb cunt.DrBombay
- "dumb cunt"DrBombay
- Be 62 years old lose your job and call it an opportunity with cancer, you complete shitheel.DrBombay
- made ya post! :)PonyBoy
- trying being 33, not having insurance... having a life-ending heart condition and no foreseeable way of paying for itPonyBoy
- ... shitheel.PonyBoy
- I'm not denying you of anything. I wouldn't call that an "opportunity" though.DrBombay
- PonyBoy0
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