Politics
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- ********0
http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu…
Keep looking at the stats here, what the hell happened in Spain?
- DrBombay0
- that's lollowimpakt
- I'm forwarding this to my right-wing in-laws. tyMimio
- There really is no disputing it.DrBombay
- theres plenty to dispute. but no amount of reason can persuade irrational people.********
- What is irrational about it?DrBombay
- I mean, dispute it.DrBombay
- its not easily summed up. enough for this window, and to fully explain it would need at least 50 pages to touch on varying historical info and everything********
- Cop out.DrBombay
- it all, history, philosophy, psychology, pros cons, ... can simplify somehtign that easily, like the pasted "liberal" message********
- Are you going to dispute something about it?DrBombay
- ill cop out, bit busy, but one detail electricity. look into dc as standard, why&why not ac********
- DrBombay0
Brown told the crowd that Gladney is accepting donations toward his medical expenses. Gladney told reporters he was laid off recently and has no health insurance.
http://www.kansascity.com/news/p…
You can't make this shit up...
- *astroturf facepalmTheBlueOne
- that is fucking funnyBonSeff
- one more reason against the health plan. protection against douchebags from bleeding everyone dry********
- poor you...DrBombay
- of course hes askign for donations which ihe is free to do. but sounds liek personal responsibility is being didgedd********
- You don't understand the debate, obviously.DrBombay
- i understand it. poverty for all. how bout this, if peopel want uni care start a private organization********
- that way majority rule isnt taking the rights(private property) away from others. hell social medicine is avail********
- not happy about it but cant remove it at this time, its liek a cancer that cant be removed but can be stopped from growing further********
- TheBlueOne0
"Don’t talk to me about death panels, Sarah Palin....You have no idea what it’s like to be called into a sterile conference room with a hospital administrator you’ve never met before and be told that your mother’s insurance policy will only pay for 30 days in ICU. You can't imagine what it's like to be advised that you need to “make some decisions,” like whether your mother should be released “HTD” which is hospital parlance for “home to die,” or if you want to pay out of pocket to keep her in the ICU another week. And when you ask how much that would cost you are given a number so impossibly large that you realize there really are no decisions to make. The decision has been made for you. "Living will" or no, it doesn't matter. The bank account and the insurance policy have trumped any legal document.
If this isn’t a “death panel” I don’t know what is."
- ukit0
Sarah = dumb
- TheBlueOne0
Lies, damn lies, and just flat out fucking stupidity.
"...Published a week ago Friday, it is chock full of lies, distortions and other foolishness, such as the claim that the House bill would compel senior citizens to undergo mandatory euthanasia counseling every five years.
But my favorite part of the editorial deals with the British health-care system, which if you believe IBD is basically condemning the old and disabled to die.
“People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn’t have a chance in the U.K., where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless,” the editorial claims.
Of course, that same Stephen Hawking who wouldn’t have a chance in the United Kingdom was in fact born in the United Kingdom, has lived his entire life in the United Kingdom and lives there still today, at the ripe old age of 67. (He was in fact hospitalized earlier this month.) Hawking is, you might say, living, breathing proof that these people are first-class fools."
- DrBombay0
These "free market" fools are arguing for the non-competitive benefit of insurance companies. I am truly amazed that people continue to vote and advocate against their own interests.
- PonyBoy0
question... and I'm not taking sides here at all... because I don't have enough background to really talk about the health care bill...
... but if someone held out 2 bowls of mm's in front of you - and by appearance the m&m's seemed the same...
... one bowl had 'free' m&m's... and the other bowl - the m&m's were only $1 each... and... AND... the 'free' bowl could be replenished supposedly w/out issue...
... which bowl would the majority dig their dirty hands into... even if they weren't hungry for an m&m?
- retarded.DrBombay
- haha... that's pretty weak, rick...
... i make point exceptionally clearly - don't let the simplicity confuse you.PonyBoy - Sure makes the guys charging more for the "same" M&Ms look a bit foolish and wasteful.Mimio
- Are the $1 M&M's any better?DrBombay
- who knows :)PonyBoy
- think error is in the bowl being replenished w/out issue.********
- i said 'supposedly', deathboy - ;)
... very important word.PonyBoy
- TheBlueOne0
I wonder..if you had a bunch of starving poor kids, and a bunch of people who made say, I dunno, $100 a week and then saying, OK, our M&M's cost $55 bucks, and if you can't afford it, tough. And even if you pay for it, if you plan on eating more than five M&M's we might cut you off arbitrarily, or if you eat a Twixt bar and then come back for M&M's, we won't let you have any either...well, then we're at a closer analogy. Of course, for the people that sell the M&M's they get all the M&M's for free...
- PonyBoy0
^^ you have no argument from me, tbo... at all...
... and I think you're clearly missing my point. I'm simply commenting that anything 'free' will eventually put the stuff you pay for out of business.
- disagree.TheBlueOne
- *stares at bottled water on deskTheBlueOne
- Who said it was free?Mimio
- PonyBoy0
you guys remember that I have a shitty heart condition and can't get insured...right?
you recall the amount of times I've said I can get covered for a pre-existing condition and am livid at the price for health care EVEN IF I DIDN'T have my own health issues.
It doesn't start there either - I fractured 6 vertebrae in my back when I was a kid... HORRID pain... alll the fucking time - which is why I smoke weed around the clock.
Why am I telling you this?... I dunno - just trying to point out that even though I NEED THIS REFORM - and the majority of you here DON'T... ... I still see the stupidity in creating a 'free' plan. You can't sustain everyone forever - especially w/a massive growing population.
Just get the fucking prices down... limit the ability to create a frivolous lawsuits... blah blah...
sorry - as i have a REAL condition - I'm not interested in dealing w/DMV style customer service and IRS bedside manner.
You have to be crazy to think the 'Gov' can actually 'run' a sustainable health care plan that helps everyone... Dear Gov, just get the COST down and then stay the fuck out of it.
- DrBombay0
How do you suggest the government gets that cost down for you?
- hahahaMimio
- A) Tort reform
B) Eliminate pharmaceutical 'small interest' groupsPonyBoy - John Galt never needed healthcare. He wanted to work until he died from it.Mimio
- thanks for keeping it honest - i open myself up to you pricks and all you got is to attack me... fuck this thread :)PonyBoy
- Don't think lobbying and litigation are the big problems for Health Ins companies.Mimio
- Don't get all sore PonyMimio
- 10 largest insurers profit went up 420% between 200 and 2007... but its the torts!DrBombay
- dr's need insurance to protect them from large lawsuits too, dobs... that's a big part of that 'profit'.PonyBoy
- take away mandates on covering uninsured, proper judicial system on lawsuits********
- proper judicial system... do you see the irony in that statement?DrBombay
- ukit0
If the government is evil and can't be trusted with life and death decisions, why not privatize the police, fire fighters, and the army?
- My right-wing father-in-law always says..."Protect the borders, deliver the mail and get out of my business..."Mimio
- gfy, mimio
;)PonyBoy - ^^^^^^^^
oops... i meant to put that up in the above notePonyBoy - LOL For a minute there I though I offended you by quoting my in-laws.Mimio
- haha!! :)PonyBoy
- because those particular things cant be business ran. business is to make money. how to make money on those..********
- ukit0
Actually, the logic is pretty similar. The reason I wouldn't want a privatized fire fighting force that was in it to make $ is because I'd be afraid they'd start making decisions based on economics rather than just putting out fires.
Well, what's the difference between your house catching on fire and getting cancer? In both cases, shouldn't the government that you pay taxes to ensure that you are able to get treatment if you want it?
Why do we let the companies in one situation make a profit off people's suffering and deny them service when it isn't profitable?
- ukit0
Remember, we're not talking about the government employing doctors itself or giving away anything for free...only that it would provide a slightly lower cost alternative to the insurance companies that wouldn't deny people service. Exactly the same as what people over 65 already get in this country.
- PonyBoy0
gov.-run catastrophic care... I'm all for it!!! If you have a nasty condition - and I don't care what your age is... 30 or 84... you come first.
tax-free health savings accounts that can't be used for anything but health care costs - I'm all for it!!!
Tort reform - stop the SHITTY frivolous lawsuits that drive cost through roof forcing Dr's to have massive Insurance for themselves... I'm all for it!!!
Special Interests only interested in having their product approved and 'pushed'... fuck them - eliminate them... I'm all for it!!!
- all i'm saying is that there are plenty of ways to trim the costPonyBoy
- 10 largest insurers profit went up 420% between 200 and 2007... but its the torts!DrBombay
- We would have that years ago if Kerry would have won.Mimio
- That isn't part of it? Not even a little?DrBombay
- EMRSMimio
- dobs... you're proving my point about tort reform - insur. co's insure doctors too - who could never afford the payouts on their ownPonyBoy
- own.PonyBoy
- profits dude... profits go up because of frivolous law suits?DrBombay
- yes, dobs... they do - insurance co's cover doctors too... ;)PonyBoy
- and you think they're just going to eat that cost? nope... it's always handed down to the consumerPonyBoy
- You think healthcare should be a for-profit business. I disagree.DrBombay
- lol... what do doctors and medical engineering / pharmaceutical companies do then... create free stuff?PonyBoy
- Publicly traded hospitals dude?DrBombay
- It isn't like that everywhere, you know.DrBombay
- ukit0
Sure but catastrophic care isn't very cost efficient. That's pretty much the way the system works now. People don't have insurance so they go to the hospital when they are really sick...and the public ends up eating the cost.
That's one of the main reasons everyone thinks we need reform in the first place, because with our aging coach potato population those uninsured emergency room visits will end up driving up the cost of medicine and putting the government deeper in debt. Ironically, if you insured everybody and there was better preventive care the costs would go down, not up.
- PonyBoy0
can't you tell that I'M WITH YOU GUYS on how shitty Insurance companies are?!!!!!!
I'M COMPLETELY AGAINST THEIR SHITTY MASSIVE PROFITS!!!
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!! ffs... I'm not all about making sure private commerce makes their fucking profits FFS....
... i want the cost down!!!! FUCK Insurance Companies and their greedy bullshit - THEY WON'T EVEN COVER ME...
Try getting a letter in the mail every month for a year straight from every insurance company you could think to contact to ask for 'help'... and their response is either 'No'... or "yes... except your pre-existing condition'...
... I fucking get it, guys... more than most of you here... ;)
I just want the cost down... and everything left 'private' as the Gov. is NOT capable of making decisions for me. I want the Gov. to just make sure I have options available - but I don't want THEM as my only option.
- They aren't the only option, even in Canada.DrBombay
- and now we're back to my two bowls of m&m's illustration, dobs :DPonyBoy
- Is anyone advocating FREE health care. This is why I don't think you really get it.DrBombay
- anyone w/a brain understands it's not 'free'... taxes pay for it, dobs... the point is - if you're already taxed for it...PonyBoy
- ... and it's there in front of you to take it... or... PAY MORE elsewhere - what are the majority of people going to do?PonyBoy
- think small businesses who insure their employees - they start paying the taxes into the gov plan... are they really...PonyBoy
- ... going to keep paying for private insur. on top of those taxes?
No... therefore the other bowl eventually becomes untouched.PonyBoy - of M&m's... eventually begins to just sit.PonyBoy
- So the M&M's aren't really free then are they?DrBombay
- thus why I said that metaphor is retarded :)DrBombay
- but you already PAY FOR THEM... why bother with the 'private' bowl?!
Why is this so hard for you to follow?PonyBoy - Public education is a more apt analogy. It hasn't done away with private schools and universities.Mimio
- follow?PonyBoy
- the only thing retarded here is your ability to follow the idea that people will always go the 'cheaper' routePonyBoy
- Mimio has it right...DrBombay
- education is not HEALTH... you can't compare the two at all - people drop out of highschool and do finePonyBoy
- But many people believe public school sucks, so they CHOOSE to send their kids to priv schoolsDrBombay
- Even though they still pay for the public schools out of their taxes, right?DrBombay
- that's actually a good argument :)
I have to think about that...
...
... Fag!PonyBoy - And we have had a breakthroughDrBombay
- if you send your kid to private school, you can apply for a voucherBattleAxe
- Mimio0
The catastrophic care is actually single payer negotiated. Right now the Gov, hospitals and insurance companies split the bill and pass it along to people with insurance.
- ukit0
^ Exactly, that's what so ironic about the situation. The government IS paying for that shit right now..duh...but try telling that to Palin and her trophy Downs Syndrome child;)