Politics
- Started
- Last post
- 33,755 Responses
- TheBlueOne0
A Chart of the Value of the World’s Banks
http://wists.com/thumbnails/7/7c…
Nothing sums up what has happened better than this. Given the bailouts, its fair to say that in 2008 the majority of the worlds best known banks were bankrupted.
- ukit0
Just saw the headline on the news "Terrorists - will they end up in your state?"
They are not gonna let this Guantanemo thing go.
- I live in NY. The terrorists are already here. pffft...TheBlueOne
- OBBTKN0
1 month for local elections here in BC.
Funny to see right and left wing spaniards fighting for basque El Dorado... very funny.
- designbot0
"Regular people being held indefinitely without reason and without fair trial - will they end up in your state?"
- Yeah that's all they are. Just regular ol people. While I agree they need to be given their due process, you're eating too muchtommyo
- liberal pie if you think that a majority of the people there are just there for no reason.tommyo
- like the guy who died in gitnmo for having a cellphone and shovel in his trunk? criminal!KwesiJ
- actually i've heard a former guard say in an interview that at least 90% know nothing and did nothing so much as be in the wrong place at the wrong time. But now everyone thinks they're terrists.KwesiJ
- ...the wrong place at the wrong time. Now they're terrists and treated like they're guilty.KwesiJ
- Actually treated worse than being guilty.KwesiJ
- how do you know, tommy? or really just speculating?DrBombay
- bliznutty0
Detainee went from Gitmo to al Qaeda, officials say
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS…
uh duh, ya think?
- tommyo0
Again, they do need their due process. But to think that the population of Gitmo (200+ inmates) are all just teddy bears with beards is a mistake.
I find this interesting correlation between the liberal hatred of Bush and this blind assumption that all facets of terrorism and Iraq are purely benign. Terrorists don't exist, 911 was orchestrated by our gov, the inhabitants of gitmo are jolly old souls, Saddam and Ahmadinejad would be fun to invite over for a dinner party, our soldiers are simply a bunch of jar heads capping off civilians for raffle tickets.
Don't get me wrong, I think Iraq was a mistake (obviously). I also firmly believe that our foreign policy caused terrorism. Sure there are innocent people in gitmo, that's why they need due process. But to draw some of the conclusions I see people draw is a mistake. The ostrich approach is about as thin and sad as 'They hate us for our freedoms!'
- BattleAxe0
if they committed crimes against the civs of the usa , shit I can think of lots of Prisons to put them in that are Maximum Security , how are these prisoners any less terrorizing than Charles Manson, Ted Bundy , etc , let the Spiders and Bubbas, and Skinheads deal with them , if they are guilty , lets not act like we have no other place to put "prisoners" that is all they are
- designbot0
The problem is this tommyo....It doesn't matter if some of the detained are actually terrorists or not.....Gitmo and other "black sites" are completely illegal. The end does not justify the means, and this certainly applies here. It's the principal of it all. Remember that when people turn in supposed "terrorists" they were given cash rewards...do you think this is a good idea? The outcome was of course people turning in complete innocents and making radical claims about them simply to collect a reward. This whole thing is just so out of control it's ridiculous.
- add the fact that the accused were never told why they were being detained and never given a fair trial and it's obvious something is wrong here.designbot
- something is wrong here.designbot
- I'm not arguing with you on that point. Read what I wrote.tommyo
- my god. I agree with designbot?!
I'm taking the rest of the day off.TheBlueOne - i agree with designbot too. change has come to QBNlowimpakt
- KwesiJ0
the documentary Standard Operating Procedure...I thought this would be an good time to post this, I still havn't seen it but there's clips where they're talking about 20,000 people being hung in a room in abu graihb. guantanamo is the scapegoat for the government and the media and its only the tip of the ice burg of the brutal secret prison system. I'd hate to sound cynical or something but Obama can't sign away the billions of dollars and contracts being funneled into corporations like Haliburton to build and maintain them. Actually I predict he approves more 'security' funding shortly.
- tommyo0
^^ I totally ageee. Put them in regular prisons and try them in our courts. It's the right thing to do. I'm sure there are a lot of them that are innocent and they need to be set free if they are. It's not right what we're doing to those who are innocent. The ONLY system we have to provide justice is our court systems, with the detainees having the same rights as we do.
The ONLY thing I have a problem with is this blind notion that they're all (or mostly) innocent. You and I have no idea who is and who isn't so don't let your hatred for our former president automatically presume an outcome. Get it?
- i think the concept of a 'fair' trial is over your head...bascially over for them as wellKwesiJ
- Okay then what's the solution? I think our courts are actually pretty fair, and non political. The tribunals are what scare me.tommyo
- you'd be mistaken then because its far from thatKwesiJ
- They cannot be tried in a civil court simply because what crimes they committed are not covered by US civil code.********
- they're not charged with anything last time i checked....didn't nessesairly commit anything either. civil code wat?KwesiJ
- I agree full heatedly they all deserve their day in court, its just that so much of the evidence is classified. Making a true criminal court impossible.threadpost
- ...court impossible.threadpost
- Maybe the answer is an international classified court? IDK, maybe they belong in the Hague?threadpost
- ukit0
I think we are on the same page here. For sure some of them are dangerous while others are probably just some guy who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. It is a massive legal clusterfuck that Bush created by not acting responsibly.
- tommyo0
^^ exactly. I think the whole thing is so avoidable by just letting them have due process. If they're terrorists then let's hear why. Put away the guilty ones and set free the innocents. Done and done.
- Isn't that kinda the plan?TheBlueOne
- I sure hope so. These prisons are against everything the US is supposed to be.tommyo
- designbot0
Yeah I think we are all on the same page. I certainly don't presume they are all innocent tommyo.
- KwesiJ0
its besides the point of being guilty or innocent it has to do with legal and ethical treatment of people who are prisoners of war. sometimes these conversation sound like so long as they're proven guilty (of what crimes specifically? are they all accused of 911? what about the ones who were militant recruits?) then they get what they deserve...simply not the case.
- tommyo0
KwesiJ,
What is it that you think should be done then? You said our court system isn't fair enough. I'm curious to know your solution.
- solution? its a problem with none...there i said it. its corrupt and brutal.KwesiJ
- i mean we're talking about legal and ethical treatment of people being used as poltical captives in an illegal and morally discusting warKwesiJ
- ...destructive war.KwesiJ
- ahahaaha you assume they're all innocent. Exactly my point. No, we're talking about SOME innocent people, and SOMEtommyo
- people who want to cut your fucking face off. Determining which is which is kinda necessary. However we shouldtommyo
- not reduce who we are, as a country, to find out. Gitmo = reducing who we are and our values, imo.tommyo
- you lost it there tough guyKwesiJ
- tommyo0
What, are you 12 years old? 'ALL THE SOLUTIONS SUCK AND IT'S BRUTAL!!'
Okay so then your ideal solution is that there isn't one. So then wouldn't the fairest solution of them all be to actually present the evidence of them being guilty to our court system (not a military tribunal). And if you have enough evidence then actually put them on trial? Because from what I gather you'd rather just turn back time. Well, that's not a solution. You can't actually go back in time. So real people have to make real decisions, and btw, just to make this clear going back in time isn't going to happen. Just wanted to make sure you knew that solution was off the table.
If it's 'solution? its a problem with none...there i said it. its corrupt and brutal.' then where and what do REAL people do from this situation forward?
- KwesiJ0
honestly you sound naive and sort of 12 years old yourself. you want me to say things like 'transparency' and 'UN' and 'due process' and 'fight terrorism not civilians' and 'i am an optimist and proactive' and 'the usa is a war machine out to imprison as many people as possible in the name of security contracts' and 'I see the light beyond' and 'I believe in hope for those poor damn arabs' right? well I won't.
- and yet ... still no solution offered by the expert.tommyo
- i just told you 1 ain't giving you oneKwesiJ
- So your opinion on this subject stops just this side solution. Convenient I guess. You're just a big ball of opinion aren't you?tommyo
- correction: *this side OF AN opinion.tommyo
- uhg I can't type...fuck it, you know what I mean dammit! :Ptommyo
- ukit0
I call BS on this story:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090…
They had to wait until Obama issues his order to leak this out? Yeah, right.
- KwesiJ0
Asking for a soultion to the problem of secret torture camps is like asking for a solution to the military industrial complex. When Eisenhower warned everyone about the military industrial complex he didn't offer a solution for a reason...wtf you gonna do?
- ********0
- < Great documentary.tommyo
- Everyone must watch this movie.********