Drilling in Anwar
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- TheBlueOne0
*awaits hedge's arrival. Anticipates his responses:
"Well the markets will respond favorably."
"What is the relative market value of a herd of caribou? No way to monetize the beasts really."
"Better for me, therefore better for everyone."
"I'm highly leveraged in energy stocks at the moment."
**His response to this "I am not highly leveraged in energy stocks. Bad investment choice at this time."
- Fuck..he's got me doing it now....TheBlueOne
- you left out-
"poorly photoshopped"PonyBoy - hahaha!!!TheBlueOne
- hedge0
Blue, what exactly are the disadvantages of drilling in ANWR? I realize you said that we need to ween ourselves off of fossil fuels, pursue alternative energy, and save poor Mother Nature, but what are the downsides to actually drilling there? I can list numerous advantages.
- mg330
In that first picture, those lines are like animal hallways.
- dog_opus0
We should drill there, while at the same time initiating a Manhattan Project for viable, low environmental impact alternative energy. Like the endless supply from the sun, as one obvious example.
- somatica0
High oil and gas prices are crushing car sales right now. Auto industries are getting a brutal wake-up call that their shitty cars and trucks that don't get more than 20mpg highway aren't ever going to sell. I see this all as a blessing in disguise because I've never in my life seen more Hybrids, mopeds or motorcycles on the road. I was just pricing a Hybrid Camry on Carmax and a day later it was gone. Honda, Ford and Toyota all tell me there is a 4 month waiting list for a Hybrid anything. Yeah trucks and trains use oil but there are trains by GE now that get 300mpg and semis getting more and more efficient with their cleaner burning engines.
Not everyone has the luxury of living withing walking distance to work or public transportation as not everyone loves the hustle and bustle of city life. It's starting to trickle down all the way to big oil that eventually, big business will start to say f-u.
- if a person doesn't like city life or works far away from home, then they need to deal with the prices.mrdobolina
- that's a pretty simplistic view. there are other factors that govern where people live and why they do. school systems? spouse's work?johndiggity
- it is a choice, john.mrdobolina
- I really question that a train gets 300mpg... maybe as a quota per person transported. no way that's total.monNom
- Soler0
Hedge, It hinders survival of wildlife in the area. Enough said. I don't know if you've noticed but extinction rates are high and animal refuges are dwindling. It's not worth the risk for a piddly amount of oil we should be weening ourselves off anyway.
- hedge0
And of what value to us are said animals? If you could monetize the value of the wildlife in this single area, do you really think it would be more than what Americans spend on energy each day?
- simple_space0
I have to ask, why are we more concerned about risking the abundance of some species of animals, but we are willing to kill 4,000+ US Soldiers for the same pursuit?
- +1hedge
- +1designbot
- you do realize that is counter to both your beliefs, right?madirish
- Tell me, Matt, what are my beliefs?hedge
- Yes glad you know me so well that you can tell me what I believe. I am certainly not for the war if that's what your eluding to.designbot
- you do understand we have not received any oil at all from iraq right?johndiggity
- but oil companies have. just last week as a matter of fact.mrdobolina
- animals play just as important, if not greater, of a role on this planet as humans. We should value both.Point5
- What's their role? The ones we don't use as food, the ones in ANWR.hedge
- designbot0
"It hinders survival of wildlife in the area."
haha! check this out:
- TheBlueOne0
"Blue, what exactly are the disadvantages of drilling in ANWR? I realize you said that we need to ween ourselves off of fossil fuels, pursue alternative energy, and save poor Mother Nature, but what are the downsides to actually drilling there? I can list numerous advantages. "
Always the rhetorician, no? When did I say we need to "save poor mother nature"? Let's see what I said:
"I would like humanity to continue to thrive - and to paraphrase Lincoln - I could care less if we do it with or without the spotted owl, but on the current path we'll be not thriving and killing the spotted owl or whatever tree hugger mascot you would like to stick here. I'm not for mother nature - who has done and will do her best to fuck us up at every turn - I'm for humans and creating the best conditions in which we can hold off natures wild swings."
Please, I'm sorry I missed where I said "save poor mother nature". Please highlight that for me.
The disadvantages to drilling there, besides environmental costs and better use of capital in developing cleaner sources of energy,as noted in my note are the long lead times to get the infrastructure up and running 'til the point the resources there actually become profitable.
- I know you.hedge
- You don't know jack shit.TheBlueOne
- I can read you like the Wall Street Journal.hedge
- You can't even fucking define capitalism...TheBlueOne
- hedge0
- ace, whatever you use to get yourself off in your downtime shouldn't be shared on the internets.TheBlueOne
- TheBlueOne0
According to the "Energy Information Administration / Annual Energy - Review 2004" Transportation made up 28% of US Petroleum use, Industry & Residential heating used up 54%. the remaining went to commercial and agricultural use.
So yeah, hybrid cars are a good choice, but so is taking our energy grid off of oil and institutuing policies that make oil use more efficient in industrial and home heating. Even if we went to geo-thermal and solar in home heating alone you'd make a dent...and that's be easier to do than getting the whole transportation grid remodeled...
- You can find a whole bunch of reports here:
http://www.eia.doe.g…TheBlueOne - wow, interesting. I would have never known. You'd swear by the media automobiles use up 99%. Thanks!designbot
- You can find a whole bunch of reports here:
- johndiggity0
so we either get our oil form a foriegn country like our good friends in saudi arabia, iran, or venezuela. (btw iraq has yet to award a single oil contract to an american firm) or we drill in our own backyard and use our own oil.
"no moose for oil!"
- designbot0
I am hearing a lot of thoughts and opinions (which is cool) but can someone actually post some facts/articles. Like for instance, where did you hear that it would take "8-10 years" for the drilling to have any impact?
Also, Ito quote theBlueOne:
"The underlying problem is an oil based economy that needs to move on to other energy sources"I totally agree, but moving to alternative energy sources is not going to happen over night. We need some plausible solutions in the interim, or we are really going to be screwed. Drilling on our own land (no matter where it is) seems like the good, short term solution, that we need.
- ukit0
If you really wanted cheap oil for Americans, the solution would be to nationalize the oil industry. I'm not saying that's feasible or a good idea, but that's how countries like Iran are able to make oil so cheap for their citizens.
- America's bureaucrats in charge of energy?... yikes. :) Look how well these guys have handled Social Security...PonyBoy
- never gonna happenTheBlueOne
- ... or how well Vet hospitals are run etc...
Keep it private - but watch it like a hawk. (my silly opinion)PonyBoy - I agree - but point is, that's the only way you make oil cheaper for us specifically, rather than just increasing world supplyukit
- TheBlueOne0
"Between 1999 and 2007, the number of drilling permits issued for
development of public lands increased by more than 361%, yet gasoline prices have also risen dramatically (Figure 1) contradicting the argument that more drilling means lower gasoline prices. There is simply no correlation between the two. Even if increased domestic drilling activity could affect the price of gasoline, there is yet no justification to open additional federal lands because oil and gas companies have shown that they cannot keep pace with the rate of
drilling permits that the federal government is handing out. That means that companies have stockpiled nearly 10,000 extra permits to drill that they are not using to increase domestic production.
Further, despite the federal governments willingness to make public
lands and waters available to energy developers, of the 47.5 million acres of on-shore federal lands that are currently being leased by oil and gas companies, only about 13 million acres are actually in production, or producing oil and gas (Figure 2). Similar trends are evident offshore as well (Figure 3), where only 10.5 million of the 44 million leased acres are currently producing oil or gas. Combined, oil and gas companies hold leases to nearly 68 million acres of federal land and waters that they are not producing oil and gas (Figure 4). Oil and gas companies would not buy leases to this land without believing oil and gas can be produced there, yet these same companies are not producing oil or gas from these areas already under their control. If we extrapolate from today=s production rates on federal land and waters, we can estimate that the 68 million acres of leased but currently inactive federal land and waters could produce an additional 4.8 million barrels of oil and 44.7 billion cubic feet of natural gas each day. That would nearly double total U.S. oil production, and increase natural gas production by 75%. It would also cut U.S. oil imports by more than a third, and be more than six times the estimated peak production from the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR)."US Government PDF: http://resourcescommittee.house.…
- hedge0
To quote the words of energy policy expert Robert Bryce, “You can’t honestly approach energy issues with a partisan agenda. The key questions are how do we keep the lights on and how do we keep the economy moving by providing the energy we need at prices that work.
The era of cheap energy is over. It’s a bitter pill for a lot of Americans, but ultimately it’s one that they’re going to have to accept.”
- You're the one with the partisan agenda asshat.TheBlueOne
- Hardly.hedge
- johndiggity0
i think the more appropriate wording is "the era of cheap oil is over".
- hedge0
http://www.foxbusiness.com/story…
ANWR Drilling Could Cut 75 Cents From Oil Prices, DOE Says
WASHINGTON -- Producing oil from the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge in Alaska could cut crude oil prices by about 75 cents per barrel by 2025, the Energy Department said Thursday in a special analysis prepared for Sen. Ted Stevens, R-Alaska. The price decline would be about 0.6% of the current spot price. Under federal law, no drilling is now allowed in ANWR. Under the most likely case, production would begin in 2018 and peak in 2027 at 780,000 barrels per day, with total production of 2.6 billion barrels.
- 75 cents? that's it? not 75 PER cents?simple_space
- Every bit helps.hedge
- but in 2025? I'm fairly sure the benefits of esoteric energy sources would be felt by then without the cost of AWNR.simple_space
- And that's based on current demand figures....typical statistical "magic"TheBlueOne