Design is honest. Advertising is lying.
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- tank020
bollocks indeed,
we provide companies a clean brand image,
but i'm not blind for what kind of mess they actually are.its easy to put the blame on advertising,
and being ignorant for the 'dark sides' of
design.
- joqui0
I tend to agree but this is ofcourse not true.
- marchelo0
everything has its positives and negatives. we're told we see thousands of advertisements a day. i can think for myself and tell all those ads to fuck off, or if i see something that pertains to my interests, then the ad has done its job. subconsciously, i dont know. were trained as designers, do we see our ad environments differently than the general public, of coarse. especially differently from teens and younger people, thats the sad part in my opinion. especially when youth compare themselves to air brushed stick figures.
- Llyod0
what a stupid shirt
- gramme0
About the church brand thing. What is dishonest about a church, or any religious organization for that matter, having a well considered, appropriate identity system? Maybe I'm just not as jaded as some of you...
In regards to the difference between creating an ID for said church vs. creating an ad for it: Churches don't need ads. Ads sell things. Logos do not necessarily sell things, they merely (or should, anyway) simply describe them. The point of this exercise for me is not necessarily to try and pull new people in or sell them on the latest sparking highway to heaven, but to describe the people that are already there. Of course, it must appear friendly and inviting, but that is not the primary goal. The primary goal is to visually describe this particular church with simplicity and class.
And no, haven't presented to them yet...that's next week. Will let you guys know how that goes.
- i guess you have had a less... proselytising... experience with organised religion than i have...paraselene
- Oh don't get me wrong, as a Christian I am supposed to share the gospel with those who do not yet believegramme
- —but that should be done in the context of meaningful relationships, not preaching from...gramme
- ...street corners or hucking ads at people.gramme
- there's nothing wrong with creating a nice identity for a church, for christ's sake!Dr_Rand
- Yes, for Christ's sake ;)gramme
- gramme0
When I say "designing for the arts" I mean things like galleries, performing arts, music etc. My point being that these are things which interest me on a personal level, rather than companies who buy and sell defaulted debt or push useless products that no one needs etc. etc.
- have you ever been to a modern dance performance? now there is a useless product no one needs.skt
- haha. going to one tonight. can't wait!paraselene
- haha, I hate that shit too. Soon as they start singing...the illusion of reality is lost on me.gramme
- dancing, etc. blecchhhgramme
- *just me personallygramme
- *not that there's anything wrong with thatgramme
- watch the clip: http://www.sadlerswe…
it's gonna be rad!paraselene - I went to one in bcn: half naked japanese girl writhing to no music under a single spot for AN HOUR AND A HALkelpie
- ...F!
(ok, she got totally naked at the end, but by then I was so bored I wasn't even sure what sex I waskelpie
- paraselene0
gramme, it's not necessarily because we're jaded. i've worked on many ads that don't sell anything at all. heck, one of the most famous (and parodied and lampooned and lauded) ads from the past year is simply selling safety...
(sorry, started watching the body pop version and couldn't be bothered looking up the original.)
- i DO see your point though. but as far as i can tell, churches are selling an ideology just as much as political parties do. and they all advertise.paraselene
- and they all advertise...paraselene
- the church at the end of my road has a classic ad up right now...skt
- buy 1 get 1 free?paraselene
- car insurance check
home insurance check
life insurance check
afterlife insurance....?skt - pure class, that.paraselene
- hehgramme
- gramme0
You have a point para, I suppose I should clarify that *most* ads, if not all, are selling something. I cannot think of any church ad I have ever seen that is not selling doves in the temple square, so to speak. Leaves a bad taste in my mouth every time, and I'm a Christian. I just don't really think churches need traditional advertising, they benefit more from different means of communication, particularly word of mouth. They are not businesses, and thus should not manage their visual assets as such.
- shite, chuches rely on advertising as much as bingo halls do.skt
- some of it can even be quite clever...
*looks for an example.skt - now you're just blue-sky-thinking... ;)paraselene
- Ads don't just sell, they collect people.marchelo
- paraselene0
the signifier-signified relationship in the realm of advertising is much more ambiguous than in design, maybe. the thing being sold is very rarely the thing being bought.
- hey! just remembered you mailed me yesterday and I didn't respond. will do so tonight xkelpie
- gramme0
Of course churches rely on advertising skt, you aren't understanding me. My point is because they DO does not mean they SHOULD. My church does not advermarket. They were however in dire need of an identity that doesn't suck royale, so I ponied up gladly.
- and a nice job you have done of it too. my point was that branding is, in effect, advertising.skt
- I suppose in some way you are right, I just know for me personally, a well-crafted ID does not taste quite as sour as does a typical church ad.gramme
- does not taste quite as sour as does a typical church ad.gramme
- that's why branding agencies always look down their noses at ad agencies... see original post.paraselene
- gramme0
Does it make me a snob if I'd much rather work for a VSA or a Pentagram rather than a BBDO or a Goodby & Silverstein? I just hate doing ads.
- neue75_bold0
it doesn't make you a snob but rather terribly narrow-minded and potentially limited as a creative thinker...
- none of us are that creative, I'm afraidDr_Rand
- hagramme
- ?neue75_bold
- i disagree with you, rand. sounds like forced humility._salisae_
- speak for yourself!Dr_Rand
- i was going to say the same to you but felt it didn't apply_salisae_
- I shouldn't have spoken for othersDr_Rand
- I wrote that before I saw yours!Dr_Rand
- swear to God (who I'm creating a logo for)!Dr_Rand
- i believe you, designer._salisae_
- I have no idea what any of you are on about... I'm ok with that... humans...neue75_bold
- Rand, Archangel Michael says he can review our round one any time before showing JC.gramme
- gramme0
Interesting neue, but I disagree. Having worked FT as well as freelance at both design firms and agencies, I prefer the design firm culture and typical type of projects. There tends to be less bureacracy and office politics at a studio. I like that design firms tend to be smaller, I get lost in a huge office. Plus, I like being able to work directly w/ clients. I find that my job description is actually broader where I am now than it was when I was in an agency. All the above is why I probably won't end up at a place like Landor, etc...
I see nothing wrong with working at an agency, it's just not for me. This is all my personal preference by the way, nothing against those who like agency life.
- neue75_bold0
all the power to you...
- Monica_O0
Dummy Design is part of Advertising. Go back to School!
- Dr_Rand0
brain candy, eye candy, all the same thing
- Vicentvangogh0
When we create: art, design, advertising, photography, etc... we interpret reality based on how we want to tell a story from a specific view point or how we want to see it, this is not truth!
"All art is a lie" - Plato