CSS Overrated
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- mnix21
I've written plenty on functionality, have a degree in design, and have been in the web business for years. I also respect the value of a good CSS and implement it for 90% of my web clients, but aren't websites that push pure, fully validated, non-tabled layouts stepping away from the beauty of good design?
I've been to SXSW, listening to speakers like Zeldman, Bowman, Mayer, etc on CSS, but none of them seem to be ACTUAL designers. Sure, there's something to be said for accessibility, XML, etc, but how many people aren't viewing the web with motion capabilities?
CSS is great, but like I said... its overrated. Agree?
- Juliet0
Pretty much. There's a hidden maxim, buried beneath the rhetoric of "Content is king". And that is, most people don't give a shit about your content. That's where good design comes in, be it usability or prettying things up, standards be damned, accesibility be damned.
- mnix210
An IT / developer friend of mine recently called the whole pure-CSS fad, especially a la SXSW, purely "masturbatory" - his life has been hell since a recent studio he works with pushes it so much, they waste valuable production hours tweaking that shit.
- Juliet0
It's basically the opposite end of the spectrum from Flashturbation, the term is fitting.
- ********0
You should find another job then because in a few years when browsers finally standardise - which they will do - you'll have no choice but follow what the W3C says.
If you cant see CSS as the way forward, then you've not really considered or understood the spread of the internet and it's infection of various devices. You'll simply be left behind.
- Timson0
it's the 'obsessive compulsive' approach towards webdesign.
- jamble0
I don't agree, I think the reason so many websites look shit and don't work properly is because people don't follow standards guidelines.
ALA recently did a good article on "breaking out of the css grid" http://alistapart.com/articles/o… and it's just lazy design that means people produce sites that all look the same when working with css as so much more is possible.
I do however agree that people working purely to put the W3C validation badge on their sites is over the top but that will change.
I just totally disagree with the css is overrated statement, it's designers not using the right tools for the job as with flash a while back.
- UndoUndo0
I think your missing the point, CSS is all about design and the core reason to seperate design from content/coding. If your seeing bad looking css layouts your looking in the wrong places or if you can't produce good looking css designs then you need to understand it more.
apart from design CSS has huge benefits is spiderability(SERPS) and of course accessibility.
- Juliet0
lol @ moth. The W3C is an irrelevant little puppy. All bark, no bite.
- UndoUndo0
ol @ moth. The W3C is an irrelevant little puppy. All bark, no bite.
Juliet
(Feb 17 06, 01:10)
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W3c is the reason for this thread and your gripe. no bite you say?
- Juliet0
Nope, none at all, simply people who are afraid of the bark is all. Check the losers with W3C certified crap plastered on their pages.
- Juliet0
And if you hadn't noticed, all this thread is is a lot of barking, a lot of bickering and expressing of opinions. The W3C has no real authoritative power. It would like to think it's ICANN or NS or other entities with real influence over the net...but, it's not.
- DanielLaskowski0
go to css zen garden and check out how different results - purely in terms of graphic design - can the same piece of CSS give you.
Something about maintainability of the CSS layouts?
- ********0
Well I guess you've just confirmed you have no idea what you're talking about Juliet.
When you can no longer keep up I'll be right behind you picking up your clients.
- imakedesign0
i wish people would stop moaning about having to learn css. be a professional and learn a new skill
- UndoUndo0
And if you hadn't noticed, all this thread is is a lot of barking, a lot of bickering and expressing of opinions. The W3C has no real authoritative power. It would like to think it's ICANN or NS or other entities with real influence over the net...but, it's not.
Juliet
(Feb 17 06, 01:34)
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there are alot of sites that have validation links, so i guess w3c do have power.you sound like you van get to grips with css, comments like 'losers' aimed towards ppl who want to improve and advanced only make u look stupid
- rafalski0
CSS is a big step forward. Editing and maintaining sites is much easier now, even though building them takes more skill. I mean, veryone could build a website in the old days, it takes a professional now. This is good too, we can charge more now.
It's pretty obvious to me that whether I like it or not, I have to know xhtml/css. I am ok with that.This said, the css revolution was accompanied by a big step backward. The w3c nerds just forgot to consult the css with designers and did a few totally awkward things, the most dumb being disabling vertical alignment within box elements (this rule alone caused probably about 70 million pointless workhours around the globe).
This is my rant and I'm glad to hear more voices slowly raising. I'm sick of hearing how much better tableless layouts are, when the more I learn and use them I only get convinced they're not as much as they're praised for.The reason I've been repeating this is not that I want my old html back. I don't even like the old html and definitely hate non-css markup for size, colour, bg, etc.
It's that these issues should be worded out loudly so they could be heard and eventually addressed, even if it's not gonna happen before css7.I just want my old table-like flexibility, whether it's achieved with tables or not.
btw determinedmoth, remember when you said 'tomorrow'? I'still hope you can prove "There is nothing tables can do that CSS can't." :)
http://www.newstoday.com/pv-an/v…
- ********0
Yes I can rafalski. Just not today.
Actually quite busy.
- Juliet0
CSS is not overly difficult to learn, if you think my distaste is born out of ignorance of the subject, you're wrong.
When you spend hours on making a site "validate" then yes, you are a geeky loser who has a hard time working in the real world.
When you slap on a "W3C certified" gif on your site, it doesn't talk about the power of the W3C, only the influence over nerds who need something to care about and who cannot define standards beyond a spec sheet. You don't know how many times I've had to explain to people that yes, Flash is a standard on the internet, regardless of what the W3C says.
It's the matter of dealing with absolutes that the W3C really has no power to enforce or ensure that is absolutely silly about them. They're a figurehead that denounces or supports whatever they so please. Look at SVG for example.
I am not against CSS design. Being against using CSS is stupid, yet too many comments in this short thread already misconstrue my distaste of those who pander to validation and accesibility as a dislike of the technology in general.
I hate the mindset, not the tech.
- UndoUndo0
I am all up for dicussion and debate but with good arguments, the bext so far I've heard is vertical positioning which isnt easy with css.
whats the table vs css challenge then?
- UndoUndo0
When you spend hours on making a site "validate" then yes, you are a geeky loser who has a hard time working in the real world.
...................................oh my... what a statement. ha ha