Intelligent? Design
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- discipler0
The council of Nicea was established to counter heresy that had crept into congregations during that time. The words of Christ were recorded long before Nicea. Christ was very clear about his identity as God in the flesh and the only door to reconciliation with God.
- gramme0
Tick,
that's fine if you're on the other side, we'll never agree in that case...though I do respect your opinion.
*holds out hand to shake
- ********0
Look, this idea of Christ as the ACTUAL son of god, in name as well as substance has been one side of a radical and violent debate since the beginning of church history. Go look up the Cathars and see why they were branded as heretics and they were the victims of the first Church Inquisition long before the Spanish Inquisition. And when you read about the Cathars wonder about there version of christianity and Jesus and see if it doesn't challenge what you believe..also try and realize why the seperation of Church and State is such a radical and powerful and special thing..the idea, which we take for granted is only a few hundred years old, and is far from universal. For the rest of the history of civilization church and state werecombined and have produced lots of various terrible things. That's why I get all radicalized when all these people ar eout and about trying to push them back together...
- gramme0
I agree that the church has been involved in some terrible things. I think things went immediately downhill for the Vatican when they set themselves up as a governmental power.
- gramme0
But I still and always will choose to believe that love ultimately wins.
- ********0
But I still and always will choose to believe that love ultimately wins.
gramme
(Jan 3 06, 11:34)
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What does that mean, that love ultimately wins? Seriously...
- discipler0
But as to Christ's identity - we have original manuscript evidence which preceeds any religious conflict over doctrine. We can look at the words of Christ from an abundance of manuscripts, all which attest to his deity and exclusive claims.
- cphunk0
*yawn*
Hey discipler. You have some work online or something... a site somewhere? Only thing I believe I've seen here from you is the same stuff you say in these posts, so i'd like to see a little bit more of YOU. I'm hoping there's a bit more.
- ********0
I agree that the church has been involved in some terrible things. I think things went immediately downhill for the Vatican when they set themselves up as a governmental power.
gramme
(Jan 3 06, 11:33)
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gramme, it's not just the church - I'm talking about the 10,000 odd years that mankind had had civilization - religious/political power went hand in hand until just about a few hundred years ago an donly in a few places on earth..and ion those few places the concept of civil government, liberty, freedom, equality have grown - as well as a lack of religious oppression. Why people are out and about trying to shove the two back together makes me think that it's a power grab of a very old kind. Heck, in the Sermon of the Mount Jesus implores his followers to pray in secret and not make a show of it. Funny that Televangilists and those christians that want to know if politicians are "god-fearing" and thus pass some kind of litmus test abound. Not so much about praying in private, eh?All these cats are false prohets of the highest order..
- gramme0
It means that because of Christ's sacrifice, I'm not condemned to hell anymore. So no matter what happens in my life in regards to pain, suffering or heartache, I've already won. Actually, I did nothing. The battle has been won for me.
I speak only from my standpoint so as not to offend, some of you may not hold the same beliefs about fallen humanity, but I know that I for one deserve hell.
- gramme0
Heck, in the Sermon of the Mount Jesus implores his followers to pray in secret and not make a show of it. Funny "that Televangilists and those christians that want to know if politicians are "god-fearing" and thus pass some kind of litmus test abound. Not so much about praying in private, eh?
All these cats are false prohets of the highest order.."
Agree 100%. Televangelists make me want to vomit blood. They have very little to do with what Christ was about.
- gramme0
Can we move on from this discussion? I'd rather get to know you guys than go on ad nauseum.
- turnerworks0
Tick,
Sin is spiritual distance from God, but it also affects us physically. I think sin in the basic sense causes the suffering Buddhism aims to alleviate. The first sin with Adam and Eve has created suffering for all of us. The problem I see with Buddhism is that no matter how hard you try to rid suffering from your life or someone elses, outside factors can come into play to create more. Knowing Christ in the true sense gives you freedom from suffering whether you're experiencing it or not so you don't have to work your entire life to achieve the highest spiritual state you can.I totally agree with you about your views on fundamentalist Christians. But again, you're tying Christianity to a group of people that aren't representing the faith accurately.
- shilohous0
USC is totally going to kick the piss out of Texas
yup
- gramme0
heh good one Shilo...
- smpl0
Jesus - you guys are so funny - it's not about talking it's about doing
- ********0
I totally agree with you about your views on fundamentalist Christians. But again, you're tying Christianity to a group of people that aren't representing the faith accurately.
turnerworks
(Jan 3 06, 11:45)
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I'm not tying Christianity to any particular group..christianity as a whole is pretty varied and wide with lots of depth and cross currents. It's just that this particular group of christians - american fundamentalists - are engaged in grabbing at political power based on a false spiritual gap they promote and on some wacky interpretations of Jesus. They are dangerous in my estimation.I happen to admire Christianity as a great spirtual invention of our species, and that it has been able to (slowly albeit) adapt fairly well to teh cultural changes around it for 2,000 odd years and remain it's relevance.
- ********0
USC is totally going to kick the piss out of Texas
yup
shilohous
(Jan 3 06, 11:48)
---------------Well, god willing...
- gramme0
i laughed.
- shilohous0
im gonna pray so hard
that coach pete covers the spread