Intelligent? Design
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- Momentum0
the reason why he took the long way was to truly see if they trully wanted to follow God or they wanted to just be saved from oppression... at the end of the trip he found out who really wanted to follow God... but ya maybe the short way would of been better, but hey it worked out right
- gramme0
Jesus is either exactly who he says he is, or was the biggest charlatan to ever foist himself upon humanity. You can't have your cake and it eat it too.
If he isn't the Son of God, then all his teachings were the ravings of a deranged lunatic who really did deserve to be crucified.
- ********0
I pray I'm not addidng to your distance from God..
Momentum
(Jan 3 06, 10:59)
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Why does Christianity (or the other western judeo/islam/christianity thing) always start off with the premise we're at some distance from God? I think it's aludicrous concept to start form, and explains alot of the violence and nonsense inherit in them as people all muck abou ttrying to find THE WAY back to him. Maybe god is hanging out with us right now in the here and now..maybe that's what Jesus meant by the Kingdon of God is Here..meaning each second of your life not in some fairy tale paradis ein the sky...
- ********0
Momentum, he should have sent those poor bastards a map. They spent some 40 years making a trip from Egypt to Canaan, which should have taken about 2 weeks.
Mimio
(Jan 3 06, 11:01)
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No, the real reason they hung out in the desert was to coalesce as a culture and birth a few generations of children to have enough people to go conquer the Holy Land...
- Mimio0
Gramme, that's a terrible rationale for a belief system. Get out of Narnia, you'll find the real world is quite nice and has great potential.
- Momentum0
Tick you are right on, God is here, he is everywhere, the kingdom of God is here right now but only partially seen... i'm not saying i'm trying to find my way to God cause as much as I look I won't find him, but he finds us and the distance I mean is relational... I can be with my friends yet still be distant, you know waht I mean?
- pavlovs_dog0
If he isn't the Son of God, then all his teachings were the ravings of a deranged lunatic who really did deserve to be crucified.
omg :(
we'd have to kill every hippie if that were true.
- turnerworks0
Don't let a couple bad examples ruin your experience if your truly seeking Christ. Take it up with the Man himself.
turnerworks
(Jan 3 06, 10:37)I'm not really seeking Christ. I was surrounded by the guy for twelve years of education. I left him behind honestly, as I find the Buddha as a far more elegant and eloquent spiritual wellspring. Everything in Christianity is about Sin, which at the end of the day is whatever you want it to be, in Buddhism, it's about dealing with suffering, which whil espiritual, is rooted in every living human's experience. Therefore, Budha dealt with real things, Jesus dealt with imaginary and arbitrary
"sins" that are culture and temporally specific...but hey, the Sermon on The Mount is great stuff...
TheTick
(Jan 3 06, 10:57)Sorry bout that. I see where you're coming from, although I believe Jesus dealt with very real things. Murder, stealing, adultery to name a few ... I think are all rooted in human experience. Just turn on the news. Everything in Christianity is actually about salvation through knowing Christ. I only know (or think i know) the basics of Buddhism. What are some specifics real things that Buddha dealt with?
- discipler0
It is unique to Christianity, the notion that we are fallen sinners seperated from a holy God. Even more significant is the truth that we can receive reconciliation only as a free gift which is undeserved and cannot be earned. This is why Christianity stands in contrast to world religions.
Christ taught that the Kingdom was indeed in our hearts. It is an attitude of the heart. However, it also encompassed the truth that we will live in a restored world with direct fellowship with Christ. It's only medieval caricatures that have you believing that Heaven is some paradise in the sky. That's not scriptural.
- gramme0
The hell with fairytales, I'm in your world. I lived for 24 years without faith. I've never felt more free. I see no boundaries anymore.
- Mimio0
Don't forget Judaism discipler. The concept was theirs first.
- Momentum0
judaism believes its in the tabernacle, that God can only be "accessed" by the priest
- gramme0
@ Mimio
- ********0
If he isn't the Son of God, then all his teachings were the ravings of a deranged lunatic who really did deserve to be crucified.
pavlovs_dog
(Jan 3 06, 11:06)
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Hardly true at all. I don't neccessarily buy Jesus as THE son of god, unless his message was we're all sons of god (I'm on the otherside of the old Iota debate..nevermind..) Jesus was probably one of the best spiritual thinkers our species produced. The Sermon on the Mount is one of the best bits of spiritual wisdom we've produced..and usually spiritual wisdom, when expressed in public generally leads to things like crucifixition, beheading, stake burnings or general assissinations - that's what you get for trying to enlighten our species...
- gramme0
Tick,
I hear your point and I understand that certain parts of the Bible can be sublect to various interpretations, but what do you say about this quote from Jesus:
"I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father but through me."
- ********0
although I believe Jesus dealt with very real things. Murder, stealing, adultery to name a few ... I think are all rooted in human experience. Just turn on the news. Everything in Christianity is actually about salvation through knowing Christ. I only know (or think i know) the basics of Buddhism. What are some specifics real things that Buddha dealt with?
turnerworks
(Jan 3 06, 11:07)
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TW, I'm not saying that Jesus didn't deal with real things..I'm saying that the concept of Sin isn't really based on anything in the really real world - it;'s based on a spiritual distance from a godhead. And that's dangerous stuff..and can be used for lots of bad things - I believe that the same energies that created Jesus created Hitler. Which is a spiritual need or gap that needs to be bridged or stuffed - and Sin in my understanding is actions that seperate us from the godhead. Does homosexuality seperate us form God? Beats me, I don't know...but lots of fundamentalist christians believe it does, and i think they're reaction to it is worse than what they claim to be against.The idea of suffering, in Buddhism - and the elimination of it as the highest spiritual state - is far simpler and less prone to abuse. We can work to eliminate suffering, reagrdless of belief or faith, in a fellow human being, eliminating Sin is all based on what you believe causes the Sin in the first place...
- gramme0
Tick that idea of concern that the same God created Hitler & Jesus holds up unless you believe Jesus was fully God as well as fully man.
Body of a man, soul of a Creator.
- ********0
Tick,
I hear your point and I understand that certain parts of the Bible can be sublect to various interpretations, but what do you say about this quote from Jesus:
"I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father but through me."
gramme
(Jan 3 06, 11:20)
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Good point Gramme, but is he ta;lking about HIMSelf, or his example...look up the Iota/Council of Nicea debate in the history of the church and you'll see this is a very very old point of contention on the interpretation of the Christ message...and the decision then made served to deperate christians form christian heretics basically since then. I'm basically on the heretic side of that decision
- ********0
Tick that idea of concern that the same God created Hitler & Jesus holds up unless you believe Jesus was fully God as well as fully man.
Body of a man, soul of a Creator.
gramme
(Jan 3 06, 11:23)
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I don't. See iota/council of Nicea.
- discipler0
The identity of Christ is crucial. He made very direct claims about his identity:
http://www.godandscience.org/cul…
He was clear that he was the only God, the only savior and that salvation was found in no other.