EU : NO
- Started
- Last post
- 122 Responses
- vb_0
.
- ********0
10 pm only (GMT+1)
- spaniard0
'democracy' these days seems increasingly like workers being asked to vote for the new president of their company from a list of names none of which they recognise with two thirds of them not bothering and business as usual the next day.
- ********0
you really are a patronising wankner you shaft aren't ya?
yes, "Kes's" TV taught him that
- ********0
We are not part of the EU up here and im really happy bout that. Dont need more corrupt leaders than we already got..
- ********0
Oh my god! you really want people to refer to the 1984 paragraph?
lol!
what a load of alarmist bullshit!
"The EU Arrest Warrant
This will create many new crimes, i.e. the vague legal notions of racism and xenophobia."Fucks sake, almost every country in the EU already has anti-racism laws, what is so vague about that??
"What is worse is that foreign Police and Judiciary from alien legal systems, which have less regard for the rights of the individual and little for the presumption of innocence, will have Jurisdiction over British citizens"
That is absolutely ridiculous. The EU human rights charter already safe-guards civil liberties to a much greater extent then any single EU nation. Alien legal systems with little regard for the presumption of innocence? lol. What kinda xenophobic bullshit are you trying to pedal here? Foreigners don't have a notion of justice? lol
- ********0
shaft, i thought you wre an intelligent guy. But posting that Bruges Group website has taken you down several pegs in my book.
man, whatever happened to intelligent debate?
i mean, i'm no Euro-idealist like some people. But fucks sake, what's this distortionist crap going on?
Man that Bruges website is so polluted with lies it's not even funny.
Kuz
(May 29 05, 13:32)
- ********0
shaft, Art II 87-94 has nothing to do with french-style socialism. And, furthermore, every single law within it, has a corresponding US law.
"Workers and employers, or their respective organisations, have, in accordance with Union law and national laws and practices, the right to negotiate and conclude collective agreements at the appropriate levels and, in cases of conflicts of interest, to take collective action to defend their interests, including strike action."
Even the United States does not outlaw trade unions, and the right for collective action. They have strikes in that country too. This is not a departure from "US style capitalism", nor is this a French conspiracy. Nor does this law, as it explicitly states, takes precedent over national laws regarding the nature of strikes.
"Every worker has the right to protection against unjustified dismissal, in accordance with Union law and national laws and practices."
This article again simply enshrines a principle every democratic country, includeing the United States, has. That of unfair dismissal. How is this French style socialism? This is not about hiring and firing at will, but unfair dismissal.
"1. Every worker has the right to working conditions which respect his or her health, safety and
dignity.
2. Every worker has the right to limitation of maximum working hours, to daily and weekly
rest periods and to an annual period of paid leave."Again, every developed country has laws regarding working conditions. Including maternity leave etc. The United States even has minimum wage - which the EU Constitution does not eve propose. So how again is this a move away from US Capitalism and towards French socialism? Another non-sequater.
And finally
"Prohibition of child labour and protection of young people at work
The employment of children is prohibited. The minimum age of admission to employment may not be lower than the minimum school-leaving age, without prejudice to such rules as may be more favourable to young people and except for limited derogations.
Young people admitted to work must have working conditions appropriate to their age and be
protected against economic exploitation and any work likely to harm their safety, health or physical, mental, moral or social development or to interfere with their education."Umm, i'm not even gonna start with that one. I trust you haven't actually read Article II 87-94 concerning labour laws. Otherwise you'd have known your accusation of "enshrines French-style socialism" is on very think ice.
This is what happens when people simply regurgitate idiotic websites without actually reading for themselves.
- ********0
I think having supra-national leadership with practical instruments over countries (top-bottom politics) is the way to fuck local corruption. But there cannot be different speeds on this. Either one for all and vice-versa or it just doesn't work.
Like Britain keeping the sacred £ ;) Which I utterly understand but which stands also as half-commitment.
People really need to see where they stand and what they want. It's not nice having one foot in and the other out, though.
The french "no" is a good thing i guess. Makes everybody mindful on this Europe plan. It's good. Merci!
I'm pro Europe (more pro Iberian really), but i'll abide for what my countrymen will state in October. We have 850 years, we'll get by nicely as we have so far.
cheers!
- ********0
Damn, NO got over in France (55% YES/45% YES) ...
- vb_0
good work on the NO france.
i hope the YES-people will think more careful about a proposal that is full of flaws and comes at a very bad timing.
constitution is dead.
long live europe!
- ********0
yeah, long live Europe ... France didnt say NO to the constitution, they said NO and F*CK YOU to the government ...
In Europe, CEOs and alike will keep on doing their dodgy businesses while simple ppl are getting it up the ***se ...
This constitution was a step forward, far from being perfect, but a step forward. NO is the voice of obscurantism, conservasionism, the victory of narrowmindness and of the hate of the other ...
Sincerely yours
- ********0
vb_ i'm not so sure if it's not a failure for Europe as you are.
people aren't really as democratic as they look when it comes to their own turf, and this is the first sign of Europe's major problem: to cope with selective immigration (as we've had so far) or a real european work market (which the Constitution is proposing. please note that the text was written before the enlargement of the EU and the possibility of Turkey.) which is a delicate problem.
let's see how it goes.
- ********0
please note that the text was written before the enlargement of the EU and the possibility of Turkey.) which is a delicate problem.
let's see how it goes.
Witt
(May 29 05, 14:18)
===============totally man, i mean imagine, all those fuckin muslims coming in. As if we weren't awash with their kind already!
- ********0
what Witt said ...
Kuz are you joking?! I am not sure which are worse: "those f*ckin' muslims" - as you say - or those white christian morons already screwing Europe with their selfish attitudes ...
- ********0
to lighten up the debate: I think we should move to NZ, visit blackspade in his new house, which looks so cool.
- ********0
let's all move into blackspade's. we could have a jam session for... say 40 years. it's a big place.
- vb_0
yeah, i agree on that.
if ever europe becomes what i fear it will, i might just resort to the 'newer zealand' instead of my old zealand.
- ********0
okay, i'll speak my mind.
I'm divided.
On one hand i know that i'm an european that doesn't need a structure above me telling me I am so. We have always been here you know?... 850 years unconquered ;) fighting and loving the spanish like a family. Which we really are.
On the other hand I know that Europe stands for a certain lifestyle and cultural reference that should not be squattered by convinience but reinforced against all this grab-what-you-can economy of which we ourselves are not innocent.
But we have a strong critical creative mass and that is what i'm afraid to lose if Europe has a plan fails. We lose a lot of ethical entrepreneurship that boomed in these years and I'm afraid that that can be put away if we fail. Brilliant minds from all over are gathering around EU environmental projects and I don't want to put that away.
Right now, in Oporto (north of Portugal) the bus fleet is having a major change from diesel engines to hydrogen vehicles and that is only possible with the knowledge of many EU countries, our and others... And i think that is the way for us all.
Think as one for the benefit of all. I don't think there's any federation around with that sort of plan.
So i really hope that the EU can stand in spite of the french "no", which I respect anyway.
- ********0
let's stay serious
good to see political debate on the "euro" side of things.
our national elections failed to arouse and iota of passion