EU : NO
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- shaft0
I vote NO when the referendum comes to Poland.
The strength of EU should be coming from its internal competitiveness and diversity, not from unification. Different taxes, different drug laws, different social policies competing but also cooperating with each other is my idea of EU.
I don't want EU to become United States of Europe, those beaurocrats are scary enough now.
Tillack story repost:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp…
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/…
http://www.ti-bih.org/en-GB/defa…
http://media.guardian.co.uk/site…
Be sure not to skip the last one
- ********0
good point unfit,
ive read the draft consitution a couple of years ago and it was relieved to know that it was full of legalistic jargon and certainly not like the "divine-like" US constitution. It really is nothing to fear. It'll just make a few things easier, and make EU more democratic and accountable to the people.
That is in fact what the No camp fear the most. They want an unworkable Europe to attack.
- ********0
oh the Polish people and their NO votes.
Dammit, why did we let them in?
;)
- unfittoprint0
the strongest thing about Europe will always be its diversity.
it's not like I'm going to start wearing those fucking dutcch wooden clogs.
i kid.
u not.
- shaft0
"oh the Polish people and their NO votes."
Don't worry, if my dumb countryfolks elected a commie president during democracy TWICE, they sure will vote for constitution too :|
- vb_0
"What the fuck do ordinary people with little interst in politics, other than cursory reading of a few newspapers, know about the ins-and-outs of the EU. We are basing our decision on an uneducated population? No wonder the campaigns are so ugly. "
i agree.
but i am talking about a specific case of the netherlands here. i have not yet seen any (seriously ANY) no-campaign here yet. there's only uber-fanatic yes-campaigners here, knowing that recent polls learned that the over two-third (!!) of the Dutch will vote against the EU const. anyway.
the reasons i vote against are countless and will take ro much time to explain here. it's got nothing to do with the monetary issues as most Dutch people are bothered about though.
it's much deeper then that.
- ********0
and there's a lot more bureaucracy and corruption with this ad hoc system we have already.
It needs to be streamlined for our benefit, and to make those damn Euro-crats more accountable to us the people.
The French are voting NO because it would mean the abandonment of their socialist economic policy. Which is another misunderstanding, because the EU single currency took away more economic decision making than this constitution ever will.
- unfittoprint0
You might be surprised by the outcome of the french referendum.
the last polls were starting to show the 'Yes' side on the lead.
- vb_0
"It needs to be streamlined for our benefit, and to make those damn Euro-crats more accountable to us the people.
"yes, that's the wide-spread assumption. there's no more bureaucratic system to be found then the EU in Brussels. and the gap between decisionmakers and citizen will only be massively enlarged on the longer run.
shit.. here i go explaining anyways.. :/
- ********0
shaft, you seem like a neo-liberal free marketeer, so you must read The Economist. You read their opinions on this? The Economist is in love with US style capitalism (as the cover of this weeks issues attests), but they are still supporting the EU constitution. Something for you to think about :)
- vb_0
unfit, i take it you vote YES?
- ********0
vb, i believe the EU constituion is designed to get rid of that corruption and bureaucratic inefficiency. So if that is what's bothering you, you shud vote yes.
- vb_0
no that is not the main reason, kes. can't go into that now..
- unfittoprint0
Unfortunately, this is the kind of referendum that should allow multiple answers.
I believe in a strong Europe where its strength comes from its diversity, single currency, small bureaucracy, and secular tought.
"Yes" is a start. but poorly explained.
- Chimp0
Most poeple dont have a clue what its all about. They just have to go on what the media says
- ********0
I like you unfit, i always agree with your opinions one way or anuvva
:)
- Hym0
oh this is so random but i was reminded when i saw Janne's vb_
Vlaams Blok here in Belgium (far right, pretty racist) is the only party that is officially against the EU Constitution.When you link the both stories you could make dumb assumptions but the truth is that politicans probably don't even know the effects of that 500 page book. The only thing they care about is their public perception, so in most cases they would like to win that vote based on the initial side they took (changing their mind is the end of their career)
I can't really place the ad in that structure but it shows they are still a bunch of amateur dumbasses that haven't even mastered manipulation yet and maybe that's best.
allowing people to vote on it is maniuplation on a smarter level, you make people believe they have something to say while they should be angry they have to decide on someting nobody knows shit about. And i for one admit i don't care enough to read that book just to cast a well founded vote.
but i don't like Union concepts in general, boycotting parts of it wont stop the machine though just cost more money.
hehe sorry for the intervention
- kelpie0
anybody got a link to the actual constitution? it must be on-line somewhere...
*wonders why he doesn't just have a look himself, lazy bastard.
- jg_20
mh... there some dark points in the constitution....
there is a point concerning preventive war and death penalty you know...
:/
- ********0