Arrest him
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- Cactus0
CaP
I don't understand your point. Are you saying Rwanda was caused by Western indiffernce? By a failure to intervene? If so, you are just articulating another tiresome refrain of the White Man's Burden.And contrary to the prevailing wisdom, money is not the root cause of most conficts. Human emotions are what drive people to kill each other in large numbers. Economics only plays a small part in this sad story.
- Kuz0
Economics only plays a small part in this sad story.
Cactus
(Apr 13 05, 06:40)
====================
I think you need a lesson in Marxist discourse.Is you telling me, if the Balkans were in Africa, and Rawanda was in Europe, events would have played out just the same as they did in the 90s?
WRONG!
- CaP0
i know, Kuz... and it's a simple reason: nothing valuable there, not politically, not economically. wait until somebody find's oil in Rwanda or something, then "humanitarian reason" will surge just like that precious black gold.
it gave me the creeps...
-"If we use the word "genocide" and are seen doing nothing, what will be the effect on the November Congressional elections?"
and
- "Be careful," they said. "Legal at State was worried about this yesterday -- a Genocide finding could commit the U.S. government to actually do something." according to the 1948 Genocide Convention, signed also by USA.
- CaP0
i know, Kuz... and it's a simple reason: nothing valuable there, not politically, not economically. wait until somebody find's oil in Rwanda or something, then "humanitarian reason" will surge just like that precious black gold.
it gave me the creeps...
-"If we use the word "genocide" and are seen doing nothing, what will be the effect on the November Congressional elections?"
and
- "Be careful," they said. "Legal at State was worried about this yesterday -- a Genocide finding could commit the U.S. government to actually do something." according to the 1948 Genocide Convention, signed also by USA.
- Cactus0
I don't think there was much economical interest in Bosnia or Kossovo unless I am mistaken. The primary reason why action was taken there and not in Rwanda is that, if you look at the map, it is on western Europe's doorstep. To put it very simply, if there was a murder at your neigbors house and one that happened across town, which one would trouble you more? This is not to excuse the inaction during the Rwandan conflict but one must deal with the world as it is not how we would like it to be.
And please, no Marxist economics. Haven't we had enough of that...this is the 21st century FCS.
- Kuz0
Cactus, that's exactly my point - it is about geopolitics not concern for humanitarian reaons. As i said, Clinton was eager to get involved in the Balkans to expand Nato eastwards (which is why he used NATO instead of the UN to attack the country) and to undermine Russian influence in the region. Not for humanitarian reasons - which is why he wasn't interested in Rawanda. Don't know how i can make it any clearer.
Oh and you can't just say "no Marxist economics", it's like saying "no Newtonian physics" or "no Darwinian Biology" (though i know a certain NT'r who would like to say that). It's just a discourse that uses macro-economics to explain geopolitics, "class" relations, and imperialism.
- Cactus0
Kuz,
Clinton used NATO rather than the UN to intervene in the Balkans because Russia threatened to block any attempt (sound familiar?) to restrain Serbia from carving up Bosnia Herzegovina. Another, inexcusable but understandable, reason for the failure to stop the Rwandan genocide was that it followed immediately upon the heels of the disastorous UN lead operation in Somalia.I must left the office temporarily but I hope the world hasn't stopped spinning on it's axis while away because I questioned the innate existence of Marxist thought.
- Kuz0
Cactus
Yes Russia did threaten to block UN resolutions to intervene in Serbia. But this is not the sole reason NATO was used. It was strategically important to undermine Russian influence in the region in an end of itself. Somalia was a very different situation, and quite frankly, it doens't fly as an excuse for ignoring Rawanda.
oh and spin on this
*shows finger
- JazX0
Remember 'Black Hawk Down'?
- uberdesigner0
I forgot about the UK's involvement in Kosovo, my mistake.
As far as "besides, the fact is that you can't "spread" democracy" is totally false.
People say that the middle east can't be democratized. This is false. Remember what Japan was before it was a democracy? All people are attracted to voting.