Spain
- Started
- Last post
- 158 Responses
- unfittoprint0
Mediterranean point a view: It's a good thing to live under a socialist leaned government.
Remember that the implementation of such economic/social ideologies differ from a geographic/leader point of view.
Proletary societies [or sindicalized anarchism] have been sucessfull in the south since late XIX.
The real truth? It's the weather, man.
Karl Marx? My childhood's Santa Klaus.
- shaft0
"What?? So by ur logic France and Germany are communist countries???? "
Of course not, but they are slightly going towards the idea of communism as it was defined over a100 years ago. As history proves, it's a nice idea, but in a closer look turns out to be unjust.
The workers' rights are increasing while the employers have less and less to say. It is a slow process, workers' unions are slowly eating their employer. Roanald Reagan's way of fighting unemployment was to make it easier to fire a worker. Surprisingly, it works this way. You don't hesitate to hire someone when you know you can easily fire him if the business goes bad or if he turns out to be a lousy worker. It is about freedom, which socialism takes away. The deal between the employer and the employee is their business, not the government's. They don't open stores in Germany on Sundays, because the unions forced law that forbids it. Even if your employee is ready and willing to work. No wonder the economy goes down. It is a very rich country, so this isn't very visible, but it's happening.
I know that pure capitalism is almost the same kind of utopia as communism is. It's all about balance and I think Europe's current socialist streak is the wrong direction. The balance can be achieved when different countries have local policies. It's sort of a natural evolutionary competition. If a country's approach succeeds, others can follow. A very simplified example: Ireland's low taxes made them develop fast? OK, countries which want the same ecffect will try this approach and lower their taxes. It's their choice. Germany and France's socialists want to decide about the EU taxes and keep them high. Well.. my logic says that's a way for the whole Europe to join their economic downhill ride.
- ********0
I think you're confusing Social Democracy with Communism.
Margaret Thatcher said that there was no such thing as society - the free market is the only form social relations may take. I think that's a despicable view of humanity. We're a creative, enlightened species - not a virus.
Anyway, I can't be bothered arguing about economics - or why I think the idea France and Germany are sliding into socialism/communism, along with the rest of Europe, is total bollocks.
- ********0
Ha ha ha! shaft, you obviously have some kind of paranoid anti-communist syndrome, and I can understand it ;) Be sure that Spain won't be another Cuba. You know, western european socialists are almost the same as neoliberals. Same dogs, different collars. I just prefer the socialists's collars.
- ********0
- ********0
I love:
Afghanistan
Albania
Algeria
Andorra
Angola
Antigua and Barbuda
Argentina
Armenia
Australia
Austria
Azerbaijan
Bahamas
Bahrain
Bangladesh
Barbados
Belarus
Belgium
Belize
Benin
Bhutan
Bolivia
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Botswana
Brazil
Brunei
Bulgaria
Burkina Faso
Burundi
Cambodia
Cameroon
Canada
Cape Verde
Central African Republic
Chad
Chile
China
Colombia
Comoros
Congo (Brazzaville)
Congo, Democratic Republic of the
Costa Rica
Croatia
Cuba
Cyprus
Czech Republic
Côte d'Ivoire
Denmark
Djibouti
Dominica
Dominican Republic
East Timor (Timor Timur)
Ecuador
Egypt
El Salvador
Equatorial Guinea
Eritrea
Estonia
Ethiopia
Fiji
Finland
France
Gabon
Gambia, The
Georgia
Germany
Ghana
Greece
Grenada
Guatemala
Guinea
Guinea-Bissau
Guyana
Haiti
Honduras
Hungary
Iceland
India
Indonesia
Iran
Iraq
Ireland
Israel
Italy
Jamaica
Japan
Jordan
Kazakhstan
Kenya
Kiribati
Korea, North
Korea, South
Kuwait
Kyrgyzstan
Laos
Latvia
Lebanon
Lesotho
Liberia
Libya
Liechtenstein
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Macedonia, Former Yugoslav Republic of
Madagascar
Malawi
Malaysia
Maldives
Mali
Malta
Marshall Islands
Mauritania
Mauritius
Mexico
Micronesia, Federated States of
Moldova
Monaco
Mongolia
Morocco
Mozambique
Myanmar
Namibia
Nauru
Nepal
Netherlands
New Zealand
Nicaragua
Niger
Nigeria
Norway
Oman
Pakistan
Palau
Panama
Papua New Guinea
Paraguay
Peru
Philippines
Poland
Portugal
Qatar
Romania
Russia
Rwanda
Saint Kitts and Nevis
Saint Lucia
Saint Vincent and The Grenadines
Samoa
San Marino
Sao Tome and Principe
Saudi Arabia
Senegal
Serbia and Montenegro
Seychelles
Sierra Leone
Singapore
Slovakia
Slovenia
Solomon Islands
Somalia
South Africa
Spain
Sri Lanka
Sudan
Suriname
Swaziland
Sweden
Switzerland
Syria
Taiwan
Tajikistan
Tanzania
Thailand
Togo
Tonga
Trinidad and Tobago
Tunisia
Turkey
Turkmenistan
Tuvalu
Uganda
Ukraine
United Arab Emirates
United Kingdom
United States
Uruguay
Uzbekistan
Vanuatu
Vatican City
Venezuela
Vietnam
Western Sahara
Yemen
Zambia
Zimbabwe
- spaniard0
damn it jaz, that's the most beautiful post I've ever seen...
- DaveId0
"do you really think that those kind of comparisons get you anywhere? what is the point? what has a deliberate attack on 5000 people has to do with annual car-crash statistics?"
---------------------------Here's the thing:
9/11 is unlike anything that has ever happened before. My silly car-crash statistic was not meant to diminish the importance or recognizing that fact (and figuring out what to do about it). Come to think of it, I have never heard one instance where anyone refered to 9/11 without awknowledging the gravity of it.
Is pointing out the statistical insignificance of the danger of terrorism helpful? I would say that for me, on a personal level, it is not only useful, it's absolutly necessary. It's the exact same coping mechanism i ue to help me get over my fear of flying. It's simply a way for me to battle the "be very afraid" propaganda that's being rammed down my throat from every direction (not just the media, but friends and familily, and design forum posters...)
I realize that the threat of terrorism is a very localized thing. there are obviously places in the world that have no choice but to be very afraid of terrorism (including most major cities?). My statistic will obviously sound offensive to those people, and in such cases is certainly useless.
Here's an instance off the top of my head that my staticstic will be usefull: my boss sends his kids to London (from the bay area) every summer. His wife is now insisting that he must go with them to be on the plane in case it is hijacked. I know it sounds crazy, but i don't think that is totally uncommon.
Fear is very dangerous.
historically speaking, scared populations are the most dangerous things in the world (especially when they are jingoist populations of countries with powerful and undeterable militaries).
unless we can each deal with the fear rationally on a personal level, we will be personally responsible for whatever we allow our governments to get away with.
i think what has happened in Spain is a very powerful example of the population-government-fear dynamic resolving in a different way. Are they saying "terrorism works, we're out of here" ? or are they saying "we refuse buy into your feat" ?
btw winter, i like your "Jesus Christ gang" point...
- ********0
glad to see you guys still going at it, but your still wrong
- shaft0
" The real truth? It's the weather, man."
I can't argue with that :))
Sure people are more likely to reach to the rich people's pockets than go to work when the weather is that beautiful :))
- spaniard0
This has all been said before, but the reaction in spain to the ataocha bomb was basically just horror at the physical reality of violence; and the demos all around the country were awe inspiring, and can only be put down to the spanish culture. There was no anti muslim backlash, no talk of revenge, just a general feeling that no-one wants to be a part of this mess, or of any violence full stop. There were loads of other political issues at stake that have been simmering away over the last 8 years of PP government, and as spain is generally a politically divided country it just tipped the balance. The war was HUGELY unpopular from the outset, so all this '1 point for the terrorists' crap is just sad. please give it a rest.
- obsolet0
Las guerras son vuestras,
los muertos son nuestros.
Basta de guerras imperialistas.
Bush, Blair, Aznar= asesinos.
- shaft0
"I think you're confusing Social Democracy with Communism."
Iam only emphasizing that in a long run these are two shades of the same red color.
".. the idea France and Germany are sliding into socialism/communism, along with the rest of Europe, is total bollocks."
So why are the British opposing the EU constitution where these countries led by socialists want to decide for all?
Ruling a big country (and eventually a continent) means amazing power and money. IMO it would be naive to think there is nobody behind socialists who are in charge there. Did you ever think that somebody might be steering and using current revolutionary moods of Europe's youth? Could this be about the same people you are against? I don't really want another political discussion, it's just a thought seed I'm planting ;)
- ********0
Bingo...
- ********0
- jox0
"I think you're confusing Social Democracy with Communism."
Iam only emphasizing that in a long run these are two shades of the same red color.
shaft
(apr 29 04, 12:51)Very true.
- ********0
- spaniard0
"Americans should not lower their personal security awareness because they are on vacation"...
HA HA!
'I do not understand you, and you are approaching me in a confrontational manner señor, be advised, keep your distance or I will be forced to execute an extreme foreign policy on your spanish ass'...
- clint0
bush is a blind muppet punshing in the dark, nothing will come out of this war on terrorism/iraq bullshit. exept more deaths, more hate, more terrorist and the us losing any credential and power they have left...
vietnam revisited i'm afraid, but this time it's going to hurt badly... and i don't think that kerry bloke will do a better job, they're all the same these days, i just wish i knew why they're all so keen on fucking up the world for us.