R.I.P. Philip Seymour Hoffman
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- monkeyshine0
niko, you are beautifully naive and good for you. You sound like a great dad who is fortunate enough not to have psychological or addiction problems that become an obstacle to your life.
I had a friend who was a heroin addict and he was also a dad. He loved his little girl more than anything but he was sick. His addiction wasn't a choice for him and the guilt he carried around didn't give him will power, it made him weaker. I can't understand it but I saw how he struggled enough to know that it's not so simple as you seem to think it is.
Try to have some compassion for people you may not understand and be grateful that you are not sick and can be the dad your kids need.
- thanks. great points.
I've had close two cousins that were drug addicts and fathers, both great guys but shitty dads,_niko - one past away last year, kids were older the other might as well have passed away years ago since he's been mentaly_niko
- absent from this life for years. I love them both dearly but have little sympathy for them when it comes to their family and kids_niko
- they made the decision every step of the way to continue down the path of self destruction. Help was available_niko
- and free if they chose it. They never did. It's tragic and sad but I don't feel sorry for them. I feel sorry for their kids._niko
- Understanding and sympathizing are two different things. I understand but can't sympathize._niko
- thanks. great points.
- cannonball19780
Calling him a bad dad and a piece of shit etc... that's like saying "If it were me, I'd have totally kicked his ass" to some story where some guy is out of line.
"If it were me, I'd have totally kicked heroin's ass."
- PSH at least IM a good dad. Piece of shit. What you don't have kids? Oh you dont understand.cannonball1978
- the fucked up thing is that he was sober for years, he "chose" to start using again, even though he had two small kids_niko
- sad and tragic but don't feel bad for him, feel bad for his kids._niko
- he had loads of money and loads of support, if he was dealing with issues, maybe he could have chosen a wiser path_niko
- So if somehow he came back to life, do you think his kids would be better off?cannonball1978
- nope. just as bad. I felt bad for him when i found out he OD'd but as soon as i heard he had two small girls and that he_niko
- recently started using after being sober for years, all sympathy went out the window._niko
- That's sad that being a parent has removed your objectivity.cannonball1978
- lol I keed. Yeah it's all just a fucked situation.cannonball1978
- :) yup, that it is._niko
- still wouldn't say I truly know him. and i doubt any of you really do as well.pango
- ZOOP0
easy to condemn someone you don't know. when it's your friend or family, should the world be just as harsh? their immortal epitaph a ceaseless stream of judgements, insults and tasteless jokes?
see it through their eyes and how the hate hurts them even more
- d_rek0
@instrumntl
Outside of that being a terribly sweeping generalization...
What non-addicts do not often understand about addicts, and this is particularly true of heroin addiction, is that they often piggy-back different addictions off of each other.
It is not as simple as saying 'The dr. prescribed him something and it caused him to relapse.'
What is more likely is that the Dr. was either aware of his prior history of addiction or they weren't. With my dad, even though he had a prior history of addiction, he was still able to convince different doctors over the last 16 years that he was in enough pain/suffering for them to write a prescription. Not all doctors have immediate access to medical records and history, as much as we'd like to think our healthcare system is modernized with easily available records to every doctor, that isn't always the case.
The other side is that PHS probably willingly accepted (perhaps even manipulated his dr.) for a prescription. So is he completely blame free if this is what happened? No, he must bear some of the responsibility.
But back to piggy-backing addictions. Often heroin addicts piggyback addictions in duplicity - when they can't get their heroin they will turn to alcohol or prescription drugs, when they can't get those it will be something else. The prescription drugs may have been a stepping stone to the heroin. But my guess is there was probably some major red flags that were either missed or ignored, either out of pure ignorance or in my case, denial, up to the point of his eventual relapse into heroin.
Ultimately a heroin addict has one goal: get more heroin. Everything else is secondary to that goal. For someone who has not been addicted to heroin you just can't understand what that's like. It's as simple as that.
So for everyone who is passing judgement on PHS or anyone else who's life has been affected by heroin addiction: unless you've been there either as an addict or lived life with one you don't know what you're talking about.
- great post very insightful. I think it explains a lot._niko
- but but bad parenting.cannonball1978
- lol ok ill stopcannonball1978
- d_rek0
On the 'bad parenting' bit...
My Dad was in and out of prison for the first few years of my life, finally landing in a State Penn. for 7 years when I was 5 years old. I visited him a few times in prison, but I wouldn't see him again until I was 12.
All that time he wrote me letters, usually covered with artwork he created. Those letters are actually one of the single biggest influences for me as an individual in deciding to pursue art as a career.
When he got out again we caught up and did a lot of father-son activities that I had missed out on perviously: fishing, hunting, showing me how to shave, showing me how to treat women, be respectful towards my elders, cooking, taking care of stuff around the house. Basically a lot of the things that a 'good parent' is supposed to do.
And do you think that through any of that I was sitting there going, "Jesus this guy is such a piece of shit for not being around for the last seven years what a fucking asshole!"
No. I was simple really happy to have my dad back in my life.
Well fast forward a few years and he re-marries and introduces me to my stepmother and sisters and their extended family - people who are intricately and intimately woven into the fabric of my day-to-day life now. Amazing people who would not be in my life if it weren't for my 'piece of shit' Dad.
Fast forward a few more years and my Dad actually quits drinking too. So now he is not only sober from heroin but also alcohol. Everything is looking pretty good at this point.
Now we goto 2008 and the economy is tanking and my Dad is in chronic pain because of an existing knee injury and begs a doctor to give him a prescription for the pain. Well that was the crumb that started the avalanche.
He lost his job, was unemployed for a long time, was severely depressed, and finally, in 2011 hit rock bottom and relapsed into heroin and almost OD'd. We all thought it was a one-time thing and were too naive to realize then that it wasn't. And then last year the shit really hit the fan, but I won't go into that now.
But all that time here was a guy who deeply loved his family - especially his grandchildren. I can't even begin to tell you how big his heart was for them. Not once throughout any of that ordeal did I ever stop and think, "Jesus this guy is a shitty parent and a piece of shit human being!"
Did he make terrible, life altering decisons? Yes.
Was he incredibly selfish in regards to his addiction? Yes.
Does this make him a bad parent? You can't talk about a heroin addict as if they have the same though processes as you and me. You just can't. And therefore you can't sit there and say that a heroin addict is good or bad. It's just not the same.
I'm a parent. I have a 2.5 yr old daughter and we're expecting #2 in May. I'm absolutely disgusted with my dad. It fucking hurts my heart to now know all the shit that happened over the last couple of years. But I will not sit there and say he was a 'bad person' and a 'bad parent' because of it. I just wont.
- great story thanks for sharing._niko
- we don't know the full details of PSH situation but i'd like to think he had the means to get any help he needed for any_niko
- ailment or pain he might have been suffering. Lot to risk going back to heroin having what he had. sad._niko
- we can only assume.pango
- Really well written.inteliboy
- well put mate. only sensible posts in this thread.fadein11
- nicely stated d_rekRamanisky2
- can't begin to to tell you how helpful it is to read something like this. much appreciated.bogue
- Nicely put.eoin
- DaveO0
There's just some opinions here that are both totally valid but from different sides of the fence. As with most things in life when we are comparing ourselves to people, peers, each other we have to ask ourselves: "they didn't live my life and i didn't live theirs".
- omg0
For the better part of Hoffman's kid's life, he was hauling in enough bread and butter to afford them a $10,000/ mo apartment in Manhattan. His kids will never have to work a day in their lives, they'll go to the best schools, and will probably receive all the royalties off all the movies Hoffman made, and receive a big inheritance. He made himself into a big movie success, that his kids can say that was their Dad. Most parents could never give their kids these opportunities Hoffman left behind for them in their entire lives.
- I'm sure they'd rather have him in their lives than his money.monkeyshine
- i would hope so too.omg
- BusterBoy0
@omg - yes, I'm sure they're content knowing that even though their father is dead, they'll be financially secure.
Seriously, you seem to think just because a person is financially secure then everything will be fine. Unfortunately mate, that's just too general a claim to make. Money doesn't mean you'll make great decisions. It may afford you the opportunity to take advantage of the best medical care and advice that is available...but unless you want to help yourself, it means nothing.
- omg0
^
No, I was simply responding to the talk was about Hoffman's "fatherly" responsibilities. He's done what most fathers work for their entire lives to achieve. He's also done the opposite of what many drug overdosed fathers have never done for their kids. Not to say that money will solve everything.Which is why i went on to talk about the success of what their father left on screen for everyone else as well. That's one great advantage, either the kids will make good use of, or make a disaster with their inheritance. But Hoffman was no more a "bad" parent of dying of an overdose vs dying over cancer.
- PonyBoy0
Jesus.... some of you are some classless fucking losers... how hard is to maintain even a fucking TOUCH of decorum for at least a fucking day when a man dies??
seriously... QBN... this place is fucking shit... ... sucks that half the talent disappeared to NTC... ... fuck this place and you assholes... ... can't believe some of the posts and the man isn't even cold for 24 hours.
- not sure why I brought up NTC other than I'm disappointed in what's 'left' on QBN... what a fucking empty hole.PonyBoy
- Talent... NTC... Irony...pango
- Yepkingsteven
- oh haiTheBlueOne
- I agree.eoin
- on the bright side. this topic brought out some very insightful stories. they help people understand other wise most might not see the other side.pango
- might not see the other side.pango
- utopian0
I am headed over the "Yellow People :/" thread were fun lives, sup Pango!
- nahhh i'm hanging out with white folks nowadays. http://www.qbn.com/t…pango
- monkeyshine0
This is a great response to the "selfish asshole who chose drugs over loved ones" statements:
- But did you read the comments?detritus
- yeah. I think sometimes people want to believe the world is more black/white than it is.monkeyshine
- eoin0
"Hey! Stop having cancer, it's bringing us all down!"
My two cents: addiction is an illness, as much as chronic arthritis, or cancer, is an illness. It's very hard to fathom, especially for those who have never been addicts themselves. From the outside it seems like a simple choice: either continue to ruin your own life (and the life of everyone who loves you) or stop. Just stop doing whatever destructive thing it is that you are doing. How wonderful were it that simple.
But it's not like that and who knows how many lives have been lost because of demonisation rather than compassion for the addicted. Hope for the addicted will only improve will when he, or she, is seen as sick, rather than depraved, or worse, selfish.
I live with the consequences of demonising an addict. My older brother was a heroin addict for years and the easiest (or most logical thing for me at the time) was to detest him, to blame him for his illness and cut him out of my life and do other, countless dispassionate things to him. In my mind, it was his fault.
Four years ago on a sunny afternoon in high summer, I found him dead, "a needle sticking out of his arm". My brother who I had grown up with, shared the biggest belly laughs I've ever had with, the person I shared my childhood with.
Since then, it hasn't been easy. I could say it has kind of ruined my life, but that's just me being selfish. I can still feel the sun on my face, breath air, smile, laugh, love, etc. He can't. He lost his battle with addiction, and while he was battling it, I had nothing but disdain for him.
There hasn't been a moment since then where I haven't regretted how I acted. If I had just had a little more compassion, given him more time, helped without enabling, been there for him in his darkest times, he might still be here today and I might not be carrying a huge trauma around with me, but my trauma is nothing in comparison, I'm not the one who died. I miss him dearly. We all do.
- Deeply sorry for your loss. I have a strikingly similar story...but quite another take on it. Agree to disagreemarychain
- sorry man, that's roughmonospaced
- Cheers, monoeoin
- My twin brother has been battling depression and bipolar his whole life, and has been lucky to have great supportmonospaced
- but the suicide threats and possibilty of drug problems are always there, and I choke up just thinking about losingmonospaced
- losing my brother.monospaced
- so truly, I really do hurt for your lossmonospaced
- Thanks mono, I know it's very hard to feel like you are watching helplessly from the sidelines, but I'm sure even your hope and positivity for him, as intangible as it might seem, makes a difference.eoin
- positivity for him, as intangible as it might seem, makes a difference.eoin
- oi shiet. mono... sorry for kind of made fun of you and your brother in a way before....pango
- thanks eoin, I will call him to talk and he'll know that I am still theremonospaced
- eoin0
^ I'll reply here marychain, since there's a lot of text. I completely accept that you would/are dealing with the situation the best way that you can. I thought I was doing the right thing too, and I'm not saying you are not. It's nigh on impossible to know how to deal with watching someone you love commit suicide slowly.
And don't get me wrong, he was no saint. He made some terrible decisions, but his overdose occurred after being clean for six months. Six months when we had him back after years of him being a zombie.
Anyway, he relapsed and I found out. I got angry and isolated him when I should have had a bit more compassion... It was heroin for fuck's sake. I am riddled with guilt that the isolation I imposed pushed him into a grimmer situation which in turn just pushed him back into a deeper depression and back to using again.
In hindsight, for all his bravado, he was a highly sensitive person who suffered from undiagnosed depression, so he self-medicated. Anyway, all I'm saying is that instead of demonising, I might have been more supportive and empathic. And to that end, I would hope others don't make the same mistake I did. Don't judge too hastily, it's all too easy (and often inevitably the more selfish route) to take it all personally. Especially when you don't have firsthand experience of the power of the addiction itself. And a clean addict can be the most at risk. The end. Sorry for the downer everyone : /
- And thanks for the condolence marychain, it means a great deal.eoin
- ukit20
Some some good comments in this thread (on this last page anyway). Bottom line, condemning or judging someone because you think you would never be in that situation is ultimately a very limited view. RIP
- monospaced0
I was lucky enough to see him perform live in Death of a Salesman last year on Broadway. He was better in that performance than most of his films, and up-close his emotion and turmoil really came through in the character. A real talent is gone.
- I heard that, you were indeed lucky to see him on the stage.eoin
- and from the 2nd row, toomonospaced
- wow, nice!eoin
- Oh nice. I really wanted to see that.instrmntl
- utopian0
- *sigh*monospaced
- haha.. well, thank you for 'lightening' the moodd_rek
- hahamoldero