Nazi > healthcare
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- designbot0
See this is the thing that gets me is....this is the type of the video that's storms the media in America. Why is that? Why does it seems only the most moronic folks opposed to president Obama's health care plan make the news? It's an honest question. Seems like a mere distraction and an attempt to take all credibility away from anyone who opposes Obamacare. I just keep seeing these morons all over the web and on the news. Guys with assault rifles strapped to their backs at the protests, photos of people holding up ridiculous signs that make no sense etc. It really makes me start to wonder.
There is also an important point to be made that always seems to get lost in this debate. I don't think any rational American is against affordable health care for all...this is something we all want. The question is can the Government intervene and run it's own public plan efficiently and effectively? Or will bureaucracy get in the way and make it a giant mess that eventually goes bankrupt or needs to be paid for by insane tax hikes? I keep seeing everyone point to Social Security and Medicare as proof that the government can run something like this effectively. But the truth is Social Security is predicted to be bankrupt by 2041 and Medicare by 2020. Now maybe they will be turned around, but what a mess it would be if these systems that Americans have been putting loads of tax money into their whole lives went bankrupt and that money was basically all pissed away by our government. If this is any indication of how the government will run healthcare, I for one say we are better off with privatized healthcare even with all it's problems.
- All of the intelligent people are quietly sitting in their seats.DrBombay
- haha....reminds me of my job. The loudest voices usually have the worst ideas.designbot
- http://www.ebooknetw…identity
- Valid points on Social Security and Medicare. Could their financing problems have anything to do with the inflated costs of the privatized system?IRNlun6
- ... costs of the privatized system?IRNlun6
- Maybe so IR...designbot
- if its any hint, canada spends $.01 for every dollar spent on bureaucratic overhead compared to the US' $.37spifflink
- *every dollar spent on heatlhcarespifflink
- DrBombay0
By 2041 you will be paying 10 times as much for your insurance...
- identity0
why aren't people demanding this go in the politics thread?
- ukit0
If it (gov health care) is such a bad thing, why does it work so well in most other advanced industrialized countries?
It's not like it's never been tried. You've got the evidence staring you in the face that it works just fine, in fact better than the American system.
- I think that is highly debatable ukit. There's lots of horror stories of gov run health care too.designbot
- There are lots of them about privately run also.DrBombay
- true truedesignbot
- it's not about the horror stories, it's the impossible arguments that the anti-crowd puts forward that dismantles their point of viewzarkonite
- view. Look at us here in Canada, we're ranking MUCH higher in quality of care and accessibility AND we have a longer life expectancy as well as a higher active life index.zarkonite
- monkeyshine0
So, rather than waste energy in rhetoric and allowing bottom feeders their 15 minutes of fame, why isn't Congress writing out detailed proposals for different health care solutions that can be weighed against one another?
- MrDinky0
Here is my two cents.
National Health care works if you are not heavily sick. My father passed because the doctors have long wait list. You cant pass the wait list even with money. You can not get best service, you get service that you are assigned to.
In Canada, there are private hospitals but they are limited to certain services because its regulated by level of service it is allowed to offer. The wait list in Canada is a serious problem.
I have advocated for Canadian health care system for years but after seeing what my father had to go through to get care, I am starting to see the faults. My only regret is that I didnt send him to US for faster care at hospital, of course with charge.
In addition, there are monthly charges that you on top of your taxes. Through equalization, you are paying for health care in other provinces, which are poorer.
For minimal national health care, yes but for comprehensive, I say no.
- Thanks for sharing. I've heard lots of similar stories from people I work with.designbot
- Your private insurance works the same, it sends your money to those who require more care... the catch is they also add PROFIT on top of it.zarkonite
- add PROFIT on top of it.zarkonite
- that's interesting because one of my canadian friends who had a life threatening infection was sent to the US on the CAD gov's dollar because of a lack of available specialist. they did what they could and it worked.spifflink
- dollar because of a lack of available specialist. they did what they could and it worked. they need to work on incentives to overcome staffing shortgesspifflink
- overcome staffing shortagesspifflink
- DrBombay0
The public option wouldn't take away your ability to have private insurance.
- MrDinky0
Who is going to pay for the public? People who can afford private insurance? Can someone opt out of public care taxation?
- MrDinky0
When I was in Toronto, my doctor recommended me to get a CT Scan. The wait list was about 30-60 days. My doctor told me to go to emergency room to fake a pain to get it with in a day.
In NY, with my insurance, I got it the same day.
- designbot0
That's what I don't understand. Wouldn't that be like paying double in the above scenario? I mean your tax money would already be going towards the public plan right? So if after being enrolled in the public plan you decided to go the private route you would be paying double. How is that better than a private plan?
- DrBombay0
If there was a public option, in order to compete insurance companies would have to lower their rates to compete, right?
- MrDinky0
My gf's family are in medicine and they are all worried about Obama's plan. Not because of money but how it will clug the system.
For example, when ever there is some kind of out break in Canada, they announce that people do not go to see their doctor right away because, anything in the news just makes everyone to go see their doc. Not just emergency but doctors. Everytime this happens, the cost of health care jumps and more taxes. To mitigate this they started to introduce co-pay.
- this happens to ERs across america as well thoughspifflink
- ukit0
What you guys are missing is that we do currently pay for it. Everytime an uninsured person who is seriously sick gets sent to the emergency room we pay for it.
- You have a good point here. The question is would this decrease or increase with a public plan?designbot
- Emergency care is different from General Care.MrDinky
- What I mean is, would people (especially those who currently don't have health care) be more likely to go to the emergency room or see their doctor if they knew it was covered?designbot
- room or see their doctor if they knew it was covered?designbot
- Still drives up the cost for everyone.DrBombay
- MrDinky0
"If there was a public option, in order to compete insurance companies would have to lower their rates to compete, right?"
No, because hospitals can simply go private and only take insurance. There are so many doctors who does not take insurance because they are in demand and does not want the hassle and low cost.
Through public system, the quality of service drops dramatically.
- How do you know what hospitals can or can't do? The idea hasn't been implemented.DrBombay
- Because look at what doctors do. They go private all the time due to volume and moneyMrDinky
- Which doctors go "private"? I don't follow you.DrBombay
- He's talking about Canada.schjetne
- It's up to the Docs to decide which insurance to take or go cash. Hospitals font dictate thatMrDinky
- No in us. In Canada, Docs don't have a choiceMrDinky
- So they don't accept Medicare, currently?DrBombay
- Individual docs are not required toMrDinky
- This is a good point on why we need single payer.DrBombay
- That is my desire anyway. I have excellent insurance right now too.DrBombay
- You also get brain drain of brightest going else where since your pay is cappedMrDinky
- Going where? The other country's that don't exist?DrBombay
- Where the pay is not capped. Canadian in US.MrDinky
- "Canadian in US"? I don't understand what you are trying to say.DrBombay
- Google brain drain. Since you have no grasp of the global labor theoryMrDinky
- I know what it means, but if the US went this way. Where would they go?DrBombay
- India? China?DrBombay
- where is the metric that determines the quality drops dramatically? the data seems to point the other way.spifflink
- Beeachboy0
The US of A should've implemented it before the interweb was invented.
Like the GB of R did over here.
No-one would've argued or minded or known.
- ukit0
Someone name for me a country that has a non government, completely free market health care system that gets good results at low cost.
- ukit0
Just one country at any point in history of the world