Oh Lord... RIP
- Started
- Last post
- 87 Responses
- CALLES
http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/c…
Euthanasia debate woman found dead
PARIS, France (CNN) -- A French woman severely disfigured by facial tumors has been been found dead just two days after a court rejected her request for an assisted suicide.
Sebire had suffered from a rare and incurable form of cancer for eight years.
Medical examiners were Thursday looking into the death of 52-year-old Chantal Sebire -- whose case had prompted nominally Roman Catholic France to reexamine its stance on euthanasia -- to determine whether anything illegal had taken place.
- CALLES0
AND NO! we are not doing a PSB... you hear me OSFA
- harlequino0
saw that, very sad
- 5timuli0
If someone I loved asked me to do it and there was no hope of recovery, I'd be right there with the syringe and pillow.
- mistermik0
shes looks like one of bounty hunter in star wars
- -17point34
- -2tank02
- can he be banned from this site forever ...
fucking insensitive prickRamanisky2 - Dumb fucking comment. Seriously.non
- i_monk0
Poor woman. Can't really blame her for not wanting to live like that, and the pain must have been horrible.
- detritus0
Yeah, it's crazy that there are laws in place to stop people choosing when they want to die when they've had their fill. What a strange sense of righteousness we've clad our society in - who are we really trying to protect?
I wonder whether this thread, like so many others, will end up down some massive monoatheistic diversion?
- instigator and blasphemist!CALLES
- It's so gray that it's impossible to make a law or have a regulation that is "right".Jaline
- 'impossible', Jaline? Why?
Switzerland appear to have taken a healthy first step - or do you know something I don't?detritus - read what I typed again.Jaline
- not to sound bossy ;)Jaline
- You don't - you just don't make any sense either. You don't define 'right', yet you do define 'impossible'? Makes no sense.detritus
- What is "right" is subjective, basically. I meant "impossible" in the sense that you can never make everyone satisfiedJaline
- and the implications of this issue are huge, obviously. I agree that it should be legalized...Jaline
- it's not everywhere in Switzerland Nairn... the cantons are divided as far as I know. But yeah, good start.emecks
- So, basically, it was a non-statement?detritus
- At first I thought you were being sarcastic, which is why I wrote that. Nevermind it now.Jaline
- Jaline0
Oh man.
- i_monk0
The only problem I see with allowing euthanasia is the potential for abuse — getting rid of burdensome cripples who can't articulate what they want, and murdering people but making it look like an assisted suicide. But we already kill people anyway, and allowing euthanasia probably wouldn't encourage anyone to kill when they wouldn't have anyway.
- That's why you can have psych evaluations done to assess mind state.harlequino
- the "only" problem? that's the main problem, beyond accepting you have the right to take a life.Corvo
- and harleq, no psych eval can be 100% proven.Corvo
- Perhaps, but neither can any other "debatable" aspect of the issue.harlequino
- What Corvo said.Jaline
- The only problem is the main problem, ok?i_monk
- Corvo0
This is a serious issue.
The problem of Euthanasia is not about easing the pain of people or "doing the right thing". It's about preventing many people in a frail psychological state become prey of greedy sons, business ownership, etc, etc. This is not an humanitarian issue. It's a legal one.
- It can be legal'd around with Living Wills and the like.i_monk
- YAYPaul0
Makes me sad :(
And i agree the potential for abuse in legalising euthanasia is huge, almost too huge.
- I try to do my bit by Folding when i can http://folding.stanf…YAYPaul
- CALLES0
Mar adentro (2004/I) The Sea Inside
you saw this
- harlequino0
Well frankly, I don't really buy this whole "falling prey to greedy relatives" rebuttal. Anyone in a medical field being pressed by relatives to end a patient's life were it not an absolutely painful or terminal situation would immediately raise red flags. Even if euthanasia were legal, it would most likely still be a very touch practice in the medical world, and carry heavy ethical baggage and standard practices.
What I'd really like to see is an honest debate and discussion between doctors, philosophers, lawmakers, whomever, about this whole default notion of "sanctity of life." It seems like that always trumps things. That somehow life in and of itself outweighs anything else. This carries into the abortion debate obviously. I'm not saying one thing or the other, but it bothers me that it's not discussed at all.
What I am saying is that I don't necessarily buy the notion that "life" as a concept is all-important and trumps everything else. It's certainly not reflected by our behavior as a species when you examine how we treat our natural resources, animals, or other cultures.
I'm also not saying that I think it is far lesser than it appears. But I do think we need to discuss what it means, and how we feel about death, and what we know about death.- here we goCALLES
- Hey, I've never started one, so why not! :Dharlequino
- hahaCALLES
- Life is just carbon, this ia about choice.YAYPaul
- rafalski0
Simply put, many people will be presented with the option, accompanied with a breakdown of the cost they are for their families. Many will give up and agree.
"You cost your family $620 a day mister, they're being nice and don't complain, but you're a burden for them and it would be nice of you to sign your resignation. Otherwise your grandchildren's future college education is in question".
But there are no simple answers to all this.
- Jnr_Madison0
Just fly to Switzerland.
- Corvo0
Well man if you say you necessarily buy the notion that "life" as a concept is all-important when we're talking about a medical issue... I don't know... but it seems to me you're defending a contradictory argument.
- emecks0
There used to be a lady in Edinburgh who had horrific growths on her face - I say used to be because I haven't seen her about town for years now.
In any case she used to have white stuff on the growths, presumably some form of treatment.
My then girlfriend and I were behind her at the checkouts in Tesco one day and when it was our turn the checkout woman leaned toward us and whispered "I'm sorry about the smell, it's the creme she uses on her growths....".
I had to be physically restrained, I was damn near over the checkout in rage.
- I know who you mean. That would of got my blood boiling too.Jnr_Madison
- gramme0
Euthanasia is murder. If I was in near-mortal, incurable agony, I would not tell loved ones to off me in hopes of escaping from pain. I do not think euthanasia is the loving thing to do, rather it is the easy way out and is even more cowardly than self-inflicted suicide. I say this because medical miracles happen all the time – tumors inexplicably disappearing, severe cancer going into remission.
My own mother is an example of this sort of miracle. She has Wegener's, a chronic, incurable auto-immune disease that will eventually kill her. About a year ago, her symptoms all but disappeared after years of treatment. The sickness could come back at any time, but for now she is living life to the fullest. She was constantly wiped out for several years, had no energy, suffered from bad joint and sinus problems...but she never gave up hope. Now, she smiles almost all the time...the woman seriously radiates joy. It's a cool thing to see. If her sickness ever comes back and she were to ask me to put a pillow over her face and end it (of course, she'd never ask for that knowing her), I would sadly have to say no.
Bottom line: pain in this life is temporary, it will not last forever. I'd rather know that I maintained hope until the last, rather than having blood on my hands because I did the "kind" thing for my mother.
- interestingCALLES
- and good to hear for you guysCALLES
- I could not agree and disagree more with youDrno
- "tumors inexplicably disappearing, severe cancer going into remission."
that doesn't happen oftenJaline - but it DOES happen Jaline, so we should NOT play God.gramme
- What if the person doesn't believe in God?mrdobolina
- It doesn't matter in this case dobs, because no matter what you believe about God, we ourselves are not gods.gramme
- If I don't believe in God, the very basis of your comparison is meaningless to me. Keep your religion out of my life, thanks.detritus
- "" .. Would be what I'd say if I found I couldn't go early because of some Christian- derived artefact of law.detritus
- "If I was in near-mortal, incurable agony, I would not tell loved ones to off me in hopes of escaping from pain" How would you know now?vrmbr
- How would you know now??vrmbr