Brexit
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- Nairn3
Not to get all paranoid, but I'm increasingly concerned about how all this shit is going to play out.
Shit's getting increasingly more divisive out there. The main political parties are imploding with no visible prospect of getting their shit together any time soon.
I don't particularly think England's mindset is so-inclined, but this is the fertile sort of ground where Bad Things Can Happen - sort of like pre-Hitler Germany Bad Things.
I never really credited the more paranoid murmerings over the past couple of years, but I'm beginning to.
- there's definitely a culture war brewing if nothing else. Similar to the one the US is about to have, with less religion. Even funded by the same people.Fax_Benson
- maybe the splintering of political parties will help correct thatFax_Benson
- all media channels need to stop promoting the endless saga, and stay revising 20+ years of negativity towards Europe.shapesalad
- ^OBBTKN
- *start reversing* typoshapesalad
- the future =
https://www.youtube.…
+
https://en.wikipedia…Bluejam
- PhanLo1
- is it a thing now?Krassy
- "and you shall know them by their milkshake stains"hans_glib
- fuck that reminds me - i need to go vote...hans_glib
- are they soy-milk shakes?Gnash
- He seems to have taken it in fairly good humour, the old boy, but what kind of a total shitsmear does this to an old guy?Nairn
- Assholes do Nairn, assholes.
It just helps divide people even more.
Maybe that's just where we're at politically now.PhanLo - we dehumanise people based on their political beliefs in order to justify acting the cunt. It's not just Farage types - the left have being at it for years.Fax_Benson
- I feel sorry for the youngsters who aren't old enough to vote but will end up getting nicked for innocently walking home via McDs to get a milkshakeFax_Benson
- Fax_Benson2
Fucking hell it's exciting
- Looks like May is promising to lob one over the fence on her way out...robotron3k
- dominic raablowimpakt
- Haha, good shout. It's Raab himself.Fax_Benson
- "Hey Trezza...we'll back your deal if you go and do one..."see_thru
- conclusion of indicative votes: MP's voted down everything... right.. still no majority for anything, slight gain towards a 2nd ref. FFS.shapesalad
- 2nd ref might not solve anything, but if remain or indeed leave get a bigger majority from pubic, at least MP's can stand behind that and therefore we have ashapesalad
- majority vote in parliament and some decisions made...shapesalad
- Bluejam3
- Was a bit of a heavier one.PhanLo
- Def a class divide still exists there + just forgotten people. Is it be fair to say Brexit will affect those in higher tax brackets as the poor will still be?robotron3k
- The wealth divide will increase after Brexit. Should be awesome. It'll be like Seattle and SF.PhanLo
- I love these. inspiring and upsetting in equal measure.lowimpakt
- The problem with Wigan and many areas of the uk, is they perpetuate a culture whereby it's all a bit... dim.shapesalad
- having grown up in a similar place, brain drain happens because overall there's a dim, naff, unmotivated culture... but hey, that's the UK...shapesalad
- lowimpakt0
the only reason to not run a 2nd referendum is to keep the Tory party together and in power.
The ERG and DUP would hate it if the 2nd referendum showed a majority not in favour of brexit.
Referendums only work well when the people voting have a really good understanding on what they are voting on and the full implications of their vote.
The British public are probably more informed now that they were when the vote happened so it only makes sense to have another one.
- How do you really know if people are more informed? Running another won't fix the first one. And people will not forget the first one.Fax_Benson
- I would suggest it's an obvious fact that the public are generally better informed now than before, no?set
- yeah, but you can't prove it - certainly not in any sense that will convince everyone that we need to do it againFax_Benson
- what would the choice be? May deal / No deal / remain? you'd split the vote 3 ways. And May's deal isn't even backed by the government that negotiated it.Fax_Benson
- When would you hold it? Who would run the campaigns? What if it was 52/48 the other way? How would you even get it through the Commons?Fax_Benson
- there's been no more thought put into a second referendum than there was for the first.Fax_Benson
- and this is just the the withdrawal agreement. We'd need another referendum in 5 years when we realise we didn't understand the future arrangementsFax_Benson
- the bed is shatFax_Benson
- fucking lol at the idea that "the public are generally better informed now..."hans_glib
- There's a lot of people who don't care what will happen, even if it will make their lives worse for many years. Still think go ahead with it for Mad Max reasonsPhanLo
- Remain MPs keep saying 'nobody voted to be worse off' - there's fucking people on the news saying that's exactly what they did, deliberately.Fax_Benson
- being better informed isn't the same as understanding all implications. Voting on something when you have no idea of implications is foolish.lowimpakt
- After the 2nd referendum there should be 3rd to make sure the (even more informed by then) voters are really sure what they want. Then a 4th one, ad infinitum.Krassy
- there won't be a 2nd referendum, would cause more problems than Brexit (possibly)fadein11
- lowimpakt6
an actual poster
- fadein112
THE STORY SO FAR
David Cameron made a promise he didn't think he'd have to keep to have a referendum he didn't think he would lose. Boris Johnson decided to back the side he didn't believe in because he didn't think it would win. Then Gove, who said he wouldn't run, did, and Boris who said he would run, didn’t, and Theresa May who didn't vote for Brexit got the job of making it happen. She called the election she said she wouldn't and lost the majority David Cameron hadn't expected to win in the first place. She stayed in power by paying the DUP to agree with her. The DUP wanted to leave the EU but the people of NI wanted to remain. She triggered Article 50 when we didn't need to and said we would talk about trade at the same time as the divorce deal and the EU said they wouldn't so we didn't.
People thought she wouldn't get the divorce settled but she did, but only by agreeing to things she had promised the DUP she wouldn't. Then the Cabinet agreed a deal but they hadn't, and David Davis who was Brexit Secretary but wasn't, said it wasn't what people had voted for and he couldn't support what he had just supported and left. Boris Johnson who hadn't left then wished that he had and did, but it was a bit late for that. Dominic Raab become the new Brexit secretary.
People thought Theresa May wouldn't get a withdrawal agreement negotiated, but once she had they wished that she hadn't, because hardly anybody liked it whether they wanted to leave or not. Jacob Rees-Mogg kept threatening a vote of no confidence in her but not enough people were confident enough people would not have confidence in her to confidently call a no confidence vote. Dominic Raab said he hadn't really been Brexit Secretary either and resigned, and somebody else took the job but it probably isn't worth remembering who they are as they're not really doing the job either as Olly Robbins is.
Then she said she would call a vote and didn't, that she wouldn't release some legal advice but had to, that she would get some concessions but didn't, and got cross that Juncker was calling her nebulous when he wasn't but probably should have been.
At some point Jacob Rees Mogg and others called a vote of no confidence in her, which she won by promising to leave, so she can stay. But they said she had really lost it and should go, at the same time as saying that people who voted Leave knew what they were voting for which they couldn't possibly have because we still don't know now, and that we should leave the vote to Leave vote alone but have no confidence in the no confidence vote which won by more. The government also argued in court against us being able to say we didn't want to leave after all but it turned out we could. She named a date for the vote on her agreement which nobody expected to pass, while pretending that no deal which nobody wants is still possible (even though we know we can just say we are not leaving), and that we can't have a second referendum because having a democratic vote is undemocratic. And of course as expected she lost.
Some people are talking about a managed no-deal which is not a deal but is not managed either. When asked, our MP’s voted that they had confidence in her when they haven’t and said that we can’t have a Corbyn government because it would be chaotic and be bad for the country. Corbyn complained that May hadn’t asked for his views but when she did he said he wouldn’t talk because she is intransigent. There are 10 weeks left before it will all be sorted at the last minute. Or not...
- Makes perfect sense.robotron3k
- "people who voted Leave knew what they were voting for which they couldn't possibly have" #sigh - i know why i voted leavetrooperbill
- Knowing why you voted leave is not the same as knowing what you voted for, as in precisely what replaces the current arrangement and howFax_Benson
- Which is the nub of the problemFax_Benson
- lol trooper, read it again.fadein11
- trooper just confirmed everything in this post lold_gitale
- shapesalad2
May is like a cockroach that no matter how many times you stamp on it, keeps going... historic loss on Tuesday, no a slim margin win to stay in as PM.
Brexit has become more and more surreal.
Best way forward would be indicative votes by parliament to get a short list of Brexit options - then back to the people on those directions and remain. Then we a Brexit route is chosen, at least the people will be getting something they expect.
- sorry tired, so typing was a mess...shapesalad
- your suggestion is way too intelligent and you haven't included any form of lie/untruthBluejam
- can you imagine that mess? trying to get a decisive vote on various options?hans_glib
- yeah, you'd probably need three options - so the winning outcome could have support of barely 1/3 of voters - less decisive than what we've gotFax_Benson
- Brexit Battle Royal? each option is represented by an MP with a weapon. put 'em all in a contained area. winner takes all. broadcast on national tvBluejam
- only if it's tag teamFax_Benson
- remain should NOT BE AN OPTION.trooperbill
- lowimpakt5
perfect
"The sign language interpreter doing the Brexit Agreement on BBC News is perfectly conveying the perplexing fuckery of this situation #Brexit #BrexitChaos"
- mrAtor3
Hahahahahaha, the biggest political cluster fuck in history rolls on at pace. The UK is a fucking shambles and a complete embarrassment on the global stage.
Thanks to the 17 million wank stains who voted for this mess, you have ruined the future for the next generation.
- You can't blame people when there was no need to have a referendum in the first place and everyone was bullshitted about what was on offerIanbolton
- its Dave the pig fucker's faultBluejam
- Still praying for another referendum. I may even canvas the streets if there is one.Hayzilla
- I do blame them. FFS, they believed, Farage, Gove, Fox, Johnson, Banks, Mogg, Daily Mail, The Sun, The Express etcmrAtor
- shapesalad1
It's f*cked.
66,694,399 = UK population.
17,410,742 = Leave votes."Will of people" = 26.1054% of the total population actually voted for Leave. The will of 66m people is not to leave, that is the will of a 1/4 of the population, mostly from up north and in poor, benefits riddled, uneducated working class areas.
Assuming now a leave vote looses votes due to change of mind and gains a few, let's reduce it by 10% = 15669668.
So in 2018 we can assume that 23.4947% of the UK population actually want to leave in 2018.
This is the "will of the people" that idiot TM is charging ahead with (let's for a moment disregard her husband standing to gain ££££££££ from shorting the UK and turning UK into a tax haven etc.).
- ok, so 66m includes babies and children and mentally ill etc.. but still... of those able to vote, it's not a 50%+ majority that want leave.shapesalad
- it's fucked, yes.
but you can't assume those that didn't vote wanted to stay.hans_glib - I hear you, but lets be honest - its a fucked vote ever way. Yes pro leave was corrupt but lets not kid ourselves about the corruption of the EU.mugwart
- guess what I'm trying to say that the only way out of this insanity we are witnessing it trying to improve our own lives and in thus communities.mugwart
- the really dumb thing is why may took this on at all. it should have been handed over to gove johnson, mogg and all the other brextards to sort outhans_glib
- so that when they crashed out of europe and made a total mess of things they only have themselves to blame.hans_glib
- I am paranoid so I do think this is all scoundrelous and planned out though, so feel free to slam my anarchistic point of view!mugwart
- 46.9 million people are eligible to vote in the UK. Turnout was 71.8% 17.4m voted to leave. 33.5m people voted in total........quick maths.......52%Morning_star
- instead when it all goes tits up they'll be able to say "it's not what we wanted, SHE fucked it up".hans_glib
- +1 hans
May was originally Remain too. Nuts.Nairn - indeed hans, they already are and have been for months.fadein11
- Projectile2
- brexy mcbrexithans_glib
- indeed. Cameron is the primary cunt in all of this for thinking that the great brainwashed British public would make the right decision.fadein11
- I see, so Cameron is a cunt for believing in democracy. If only we had Assad, Hussein or Gaddaffi leading us.Morning_star
- Cameron was kinda forced into it by UKIP who would have won more seats had he not offer it at election time.shapesalad
- The whole episode of Brexit will be great for political students to dissect in their dissertations.shapesalad
- When Cameron dies, I'll make the effort to find his grave and write Pig Fucker on it.PhanLo
- lol, it had nothing to do with democracy, he was forced into it by the hardliners that have poisoned the tories for decades.fadein11
- And he was so arrogant he gave it to the people to decide as he never thought he could possibly lose. You do know all of this surely Morning?fadein11
- I know what's been reported. I just don't agree with the way you've portrayed the process and the arses involved with it. We fundamentally lost sight...Morning_star
- ...of the truth and to shift the blame from the British public to one man isn't honest.Morning_star
- Blame them both. Cambo for being a wank and the great british public for wanting continued tory misery forever.PhanLo
- I know what you are saying but it was his decision to offer a referendum on such an important matter, the buck stops with him. The shitstorm of lies and hatefadein11
- that influenced the vote was led by another bunch of cunts admittedly.fadein11
- I get it fadein11, it's a shit show from the enforced decision to call a vote through to the 'negotiations' we're currently loosing fucking up. But...Morning_star
- ...i'm bored shitless with people complaining, pointing fingers and shirking responsibility for themselves, their families, their communities without trying...Morning_star
- ...to be part of a solution. It doesn't matter if you're on the left or the right, the consequences of apathy will fuck us harder in the arse than any...Morning_star
- ...Eton boy or wanna be Marxist. Step up.Morning_star
- eh? I am totally resigned to the result now. "Shirking responsibility for themselves" huh? I have no influence over the utterly shit deal May is negotiating.fadein11
- And I and many others intend to hold those responsible accountable and not roll over and accept bad decisions made my useless politicians for their own benefit.fadein11
- by*fadein11
- Everyone is bored of the subject for sure. All the more reason for the govt to get the deal done and dusted, but nah they couldn't even manage that.fadein11
- There was some funny dick on Radio 4 this morning critiquing the negotiation strategy of both Europe and the UK and he basically came to the conclusion that..Morning_star
- ...if you had a group of twenty, five year olds, a chalk board and some snacks they would literally have made more progress by now than the overpaid...Morning_star
- ...'adults' in suits. I tend to agree.Morning_star
- ha, yes I agree too. I don't like banging on about it, I know its time to get on with it like you say. Just v.worrying with children after we just crawled ourfadein11
- way out of the last economic collapse caused by similar fucktards.fadein11
- I'm with you there brother. I have two teens and future opportunities for them are unsure to say the least.Morning_star
- yup.fadein11
- Bluejam1
"And there lies the rub. Johnson once again is given a free pass to take a pop at Mrs May and her Brexit plans. That is fair enough, but what is not acceptable is the failure to point out that the alternative on offer is wholly unrealistic. It is all very well for Johnson to "chuck Chequers", but when he would have the UK economy wrecked, something should be made of that as well."
- I don't know why people still listen to these cousin fuckers.PhanLo
- Are any of the MP's trade, business, economic experts? Nope. They just have a 'belief' system, political idea they try to conform decisions to, regardless if itshapesalad
- good or not. they do this because they are tories, that because labour. But this and that are not always the best economic ideas. politics. complete shite.shapesalad
- Make UK Great For Once = #MUKFOrobotron3k
- #MUKGFOrobotron3k
- #dickheadFax_Benson
- lolfadein11
- I particularly like this since Gotye was born in Belgium...MrT
- trooperbill1
Remainers don't seem to get it.
we've been covertly railroaded for the past 30+ years into a system thats power mad and lacks accountability, proactively diminishing the power and identify of nation states and centralising power in Germany with the support of France.
As a giant ponzy scheme more and more poorer nations are added some with very high cultural differences that increase immigration to richer countries and drive down the standard of living effectively beocming a slave labourforce. the uk has the highest population density of any euroean country despite being one of the smallest (UN figures 2015).
its safe to say this has a detrimental effect on society with race related crimes and intra race/cultural crimes increasing, increase in homelessness and begging on the streets.
at least thats what im seeing on visits to london/manchester/leeds
regarding trade deals - thats for the politicians to sort out. the fact its going so shitly is squarely down to them and you cant blame the populace. we have a remainer at the head so obviously it was going to go badly and theres fuck all we can do about that.
i dont doubt the economy is going to go to shit but rather that that than losing the ability to make those in power accountable for their actions.
rather that than keen the status quo.
whatever happens its the politicians that have fucked this up be it on the run up to the referendum or after it in the what can laughably be called negotiations.
i guarantee if you have referendum the result would be the same as i'll bet people are MORE pissed off at how things have layed out and have lost patience with it all and are pretty angry about it)
all this despite wat the liberal press/bbc would have you believe
just my 2p - fed up of liberal rhetoric
- you're really selling itFax_Benson
- and FFS, homelessness, race related-crime has nothing to do with EU membership. You're talking about brown people and recession-necessitat... services cutsFax_Benson
- or non-EU migration and UK fiscal policy. The EU is shit but all our problems will exist without it - and then someFax_Benson
- I sort of hear you both. EU is fucked and was from the get go but UK politics is also fucked. Feels like we are stuck in a game of thrones house battlemugwart
- When both sides are psychopathic and failing. It's up to people to step up and not rely on governments to protect us. They never have not will.mugwart
- well, if EU is as you say, then won't it be a big treat to a tiny UK? Whereas if we're party of it, we can control it.shapesalad
- The poor countries added to, are Cristian white cultures with more in common to the UK than African/Arabic/India... countries.shapesalad
- Homelessness, multi-cultral Britain - most of the problems stem from Blair and UK policies.shapesalad
- Hungry & Poland have both said no to muslim/african immigration quota's imposed by the EU.shapesalad
- Where as it was the UK that openly took in 1000's of Arabic refugee's back in the Iraq, Iran and Afghan wars. Nothing to do with EU. UK gov's stupid choice.shapesalad
- And those are countries far removed from our Cristian culture.shapesalad
- And expect to see lots more homeless when 10000's lose jobs as out exports are unwanted in the world markets.shapesalad
- And my rhetoric isn't liberal - it's realistic, based on facts.shapesalad
- Also your comment on trade deals shows your complete lack of understanding on how trade deals and import/export economics works.shapesalad
- You guys used to be a much cooler country when Sean Connery was James Bond. Now you're not so cool anymore and Idris Elba even confirmed that.robotron3k
- EU and race related crime problems, wut?liberal press? do you live in a different country? aside from the Guardian we don't have a liberal press. The BBC hasfadein11
- become a tory mouthpiece.fadein11
- Austerity caused a lot of problems that people think Brexit will fix. It'll more austerity for the next 50 years.
I'm up for it though. Fuck it.PhanLo
- Ianbolton2
Who in their right mind would think Brexit was a good idea - today?
- Plenty people. Repeating soundbites on a loop.PhanLo
- "...but the swarm of immigrants and £350 mil a week to the NHS"fadein11
- It's not, but EU's Juncker is a alcoholic despot - read some of his quotes. Instead of Brexit, we needed an EU2.0 update.shapesalad
- Japan & EU just signed off a virtual zero trade tariff agreement. And UK have...?shapesalad
- what brexit will be - no, what brexit should have been - yestrooperbill
- EU is fucked. I'm not a Britexiter but the people leading out were a joke and anyone that fell or their bollocks poor fuckers. As Shape says EU 2.0mugwart
- EU was corrupt from the start and talking of military army ... no way.
UK are equally as fucked and corrupt. Blind leading the fucking blind.mugwart
- Bluejam2
- May is the Hillary of the UKrobotron3k
- You mean she's a successful female, so you're inherently a bit sus?detritus
- catchy little phrase until you look at the words and try to make them make any sense at all.Fax_Benson
- I was thinking she's kinda teflon, authoritarian and sketchy political record, similar to Hillaryrobotron3k
- She did cover up a lot of child abuse.PhanLo
- never forget #sundaylunchgatefadein11
