Science
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- Morning_star0
That article admits that there is something happening in the data that is anomalous and warrants further investigation. He quite fairly criticises Radin for overreaching in his conclusions. That doesn't make the results invalid.
Yet again you ignore the evidence and concentrate on the people, why? You generalise about everything based on second hand opinions, readily admitting to putting your faith in, what is essentially, hearsay. You 'believe' you understand what the truth is, you don't 'know'. How is that any difference to a belief in a religion.
- ukit20
"That article admits that there is something happening in the data"
Not really. The author said they couldn't tell and that Radin's exaggerations and distortions of the data made it impossible to determine. I think he was trying to be fair and open minded rather than pointing at any particular piece of data that convinced him.
And yes I get the idea that you shouldn't be too dogmatic but when you have something that throws everything else you know about the world into question there should be some really good evidence backing it up. As the article says, if yogis can really levitate and become invisible, why aren't there hundreds of YouTube videos showing that? For something its backers claim is so obvious, they sure have a hard time demonstrating it.
- Morning_star0
"I think he was trying to be fair and open minded rather than pointing at any particular piece of data that convinced him."
I think you ought to take some time to understand the agenda of the CSI. They are the opposite but equivalent of the 'new agers' you are so dismissive of. Its hypocritical for you to claim one set of opinion can be discounted yet blindly accept the authority of another with nothing more than a personal prejudice fuelling your decision.
"And yes I get the idea that you shouldn't be too dogmatic but when you have something that throws everything else you know about the world into question there should be some really good evidence backing it up. As the article says, if yogis can really levitate and become invisible, why aren't there hundreds of YouTube videos showing that? For something its backers claim is so obvious, they sure have a hard time demonstrating it"
A world view that is entirely limited to a materialist or reductionist universe is unlikely to be able to adequately explain phenomena that fall outside of the its materialist paradigm. At the moment, the evidence is largely experiential or statistical. You dismiss first hand experience as bullshit and won't engage with the statistical evidence. Offering the lack of flying Yogis on YouTube as an example of how psi research has failed to provide adequate, easily digestible, proof-for-the-masses is retarded. It's not something I've investigated but there are several thousand Bigfoot, UFOS and ghost videos on YouTube, by your logic that must mean they exist.
- there isn't a single bigfoot or ghost video on youtube, except by titlemonospaced
- Take it up with ukit2, he's the one who's claiming that's what is necessary.Morning_star
- no, you twisted his words... he specifically said "good evidence." Those bigfoot videos are anything but.monospaced
- same goes for ghosts, and even more so for any telepathic or superhuman abilitiesmonospaced
- all the videos are either fake or just really bad assumptionsmonospaced
- What do you 'know' that establishes your claim. My guess would be that you 'believe' it but can't prove it.Morning_star
- because as of yet, no proof exists except for the worst evidence imagineable, lolmonospaced
- point is, if anything "supernatural" was happening, it'd be all over the place as normalmonospaced
- If you read the article I was quoting, it says video in a controlled environment. Should be easy to produce if this stuff is real right?ukit2
- real right? And the same goes for demonstrations of so-called psychic abilities. We shouldn't have to rely on Radin and his statistical meta-studies. Why not simply perform a demonstration of psychic ability and broadcast it to the world?ukit2
- statistical meta-studies. Why not simply perform a demonstration of psychic ability and broadcast it to the world?ukit2
- Personally I think the answer is that people like Radin don't want to go that far....they want to thread the needle so that there is just enough "evidence" (through questionable techniques and manipulation of stats) that it keeps their audience happy, but not enough that it can actually be debunked.ukit2
- just enough "evidence" (through questionable techniques and manipulation of stats) that it keeps their audience happy, but not enough that it can actually be debunked.ukit2
- not enough that it actually gets debunked and ends their career.ukit2
- mono practice to open up your 3rd eyeyurimon
- you mean the eye of ultimate gullibility?monospaced
- Morning_star0
@monospace
I'd say a film was good evidence, wouldn't you? Your argument as I understand it is circular, ridiculous and relies on belief, here's how it seems to go:
1. I claim that there is evidence to show that Psi Anomalies exist.
2. You claim that Psi Anomalies don't exist because there is no evidence.
3. I show you peer reviewed scientific experiments with imperial results and point you in the direction of first person accounts of people's experiences.
4. You ignore the evidence, attack the people and claim, without investigation, that Psi Anomalies don't exist because you 'believe' Psi Anomalies can't exist.Tell me how that is different to a religious belief.
- there's evidence for bigfoot and santa claus too, but please don't tell me you'd believe in them toomonospaced
- I believe in evidence, scientific method and an open mind.Morning_star
- He is a fanaticyurimon
- but you don't believe santa is real just because presents show up, right?monospaced
- I also believe in those things, and have an open mind. But there are certain ridiculous limits to what I'd acceptmonospaced
- What do you use to assess whether something is credible or not?Morning_star
- credibility, lol
I don't want to argue anymoremonospaced - Is it because of that Bigfoot video? ;)Morning_star
- lol, no, because I don't think it's worth arguing anymoremonospaced
- please don't dis bigfoot -- he's realGnash
- odobo0
See santa ... he exists ... here's a picture of him ...
- OP310
lol i love how people say you are not "open minded" just b/c you don't believe in the crazy pseudo and fringe science theories.
The world is an amazing place, its just not as magical and mystical as people want it to be, but that does't mean it is any less amazing.
Critical thinking and actual scientific method are very open minded.
- Morning_star0
@OP31
"lol i love how people say you are not "open minded" just b/c you don't believe in the crazy pseudo and fringe science theories."
That not why. You are not open minded because even when faced with evidence that contradicts your world view you reject it without investigation or rely on second-hand, agenda driven, armchair opinion. You claim to be on the side of science but all you continually do is prostrate yourself at the alter of cultural opinion.
"The world is an amazing place, its just not as magical and mystical as people want it to be, but that does't mean it is any less amazing."
Apologies if I'm wrong, but I'm assuming that you have a determinist, materialist world view and that you believe we have no free will, we are just biological machines and consciousness is an illusion? How do you KNOW that the universe is just not as magical as people want it to be?, because there is mountains of evidence, over thousands of years of human experience that say something different
- OP310
@ Morning_star
First you have no idea what i believe, so lets stop putting words in my mouth to create me into someone you are trying to argue with.
Secondly, your "facts" are coming from a website called DailyGrail who's other top stories include "Our Alien DNA" and "Mysterious Forces: Exploring the Poltergeist Phenomenon". Seems like a pretty one sided point of view website.
"Science has beauty, power, and majesty that can provide spiritual as well as practical fulfillment. But superstition and pseudoscience keep getting in the way providing easy answers, casually pressing our awe buttons, and cheapening the experience."
- Morning_star0
Firstly, apologies. Care to share what you do believe?
Secondly, I've said it before but the source of the report is largely irrelevant if the evidence is available for scrutiny. It becomes very clear, very quickly - when analysing the evidence - to establish if the claims are overblown or even false.
Sagan also said: Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality. When we recognize our place in an immensity of light-years and in the passage of ages, when we grasp the intricacy, beauty, and subtlety of life, then that soaring feeling, that sense of elation and humility combined, is surely spiritual. So are our emotions in the the presence of great art or music or literature, or of acts of exemplary selfless courage such as those of Mohandas Gandhi or Martin Luther King, Jr.
The notion that science and spirituality are mutually exclusive does a disservice to both.
- I never said they weren't mutually exclusive, nor do I believe they are.OP31
- Also that sagan quote goes hand in hand with what i posted before.OP31
- So what does 'magical and mystical' refer to?Morning_star
- it means awe-inspiring, as much of nature's existence seems magical despite it being rationalmonospaced
- Morning_star, you keep accusing people of being "materialists" and being close minded but it sounds like you are the one who has already made up your mind about this stuff.ukit2
- already made up your mind about this stuff.ukit2
- It's a pretty big leap from some statistical studies showing people can guess a number more often than the average (which themselves are questionable) to concluding that magic is real and the universe is made up of consciousness.ukit2
- themselves are questionable) to concluding that magic is real and the universe is made up of consciousness.ukit2
- I'm not making that leap. I'm saying that these effects and phenomena exist. And They cannot be explained by the current materialist paradigm. You on the other hand claim they can, well be my guest, the floors yours.Morning_star
- the current materialist paradigm. You on the other hand claim they can, well be my guest, the floors yours.Morning_star
- You keep saying it's been proven when it really hasn't, look at all the problems with these kinds of studies pointed out earlier.ukit2
- But even if it was real, why couldn't there be a materialist explanation? Just because something is invisible or can't be sensed by humans doesn't make it non-material.ukit2
- sensed by humans doesn't make it non-material.ukit2
- uan0
Now operating at full power, the Holometer uses a pair of interferometers placed close to one another. Each one sends a one-kilowatt laser beam (the equivalent of 200,000 laser pointers) at a beam splitter and down two perpendicular 40-meter arms. The light is then reflected back to the beam splitter where the two beams recombine, creating fluctuations in brightness if there is motion. Researchers analyze these fluctuations in the returning light to see if the beam splitter is moving in a certain way—being carried along on a jitter of space itself.
- experiment to test if we live in a 2-D hologram, aka The Matrix.
uan - I bet the researches themselves cringe at that Vice headline.********
- experiment to test if we live in a 2-D hologram, aka The Matrix.
- yurimon0
http://www.wired.co.uk/news/arch…
Be careful what you consume....
- uan0
- Morning_star0
A thread on the Skeptiko forum has been discussing the ESP experiment article I posted on the previous page. There is a post from today from an attendee of the conference, where the evidence was being presented, who has seen the film. His conclusions are quite positive.
- did you read the discussions? lolmonospaced
- Yes. Did you. What did you make of the thread?Morning_star
- That all the intelligent people are ripping gaping holes in the "study" and all the idiots are furiously trying to fill themmonospaced
- You mean: all the skeptics are claiming there must be something wrong with it because it doesn't fit into my world view. Rather than waiting to see the evidence. Typical.Morning_star
- Rather than waiting to see what the evidence shows. Typical.Morning_star
- Doesn't fit into any respectable description of a study or experiment.monospaced
- How ironic that just because a rigorous study shows YOUR worldview to be bullshit that you are getting upset.monospaced
- "it doesn't fit into my world view" sorry, it should have been in quotes or said 'our'. My world view is very much intact.Morning_star
- I was referring to the world view of the scientists.Morning_star
- you're funnymonospaced
- yurimon0
- Hey Monospaced, what do you think?Morning_star
- he had a near death experience, along with a normal biological dream and now wants loads of money to verify his "postulates". not much else happening herescarabin
- not much else happening herescarabin
- No other scientist ever wants money to fund research ever?yurimon
- that's not my point. the point is there's nothing there but a guy who has an idea and not much elsescarabin
- interesting idea but i feel like using "oh it's just dark matter" simply because we don't understand dark matter yet kind of tenuous as a stancescarabin
- of tenuous as a stancescarabin
- Agreed, his dark matter theory is tripe. He's trying to provide an explanation that has credibility with materialists/reducti... Dark matter is as mysterious as ESP for instance and, in my opinion, require a radical revision of the materialist paradigm.
Morning_star - matter is as mysterious as ESP for instance and, in my opinion, require a radical revision of the materialist paradigm.
Morning_star - dark matter is indicated by hard facts, despite not knowing what it actually is, esp isn'tmonospaced
- and anyway, this is interesting mostly because it would actually be a logical, MATERIALISTIC, view of afterlifemonospaced
- Give me one solid fact about the nature of dark matter.Morning_star
- Monospace has some dark matter in his closet..yurimon
- Not to take away from the concept I do feel the dark matter comments by the scientist is premature but still intriguing subject..yurimon
- Fact: it has lots of mass. It exists and holds together galaxy clusters.monospaced
- You also have to account that when scientists calculate this mass and make a mistake they say there is something we cant seeyurimon
- see contributing to the calculation. whats not to say their calculation is wrong and back to sq 1yurimon
- Math. It's not a belief system. Lolmonospaced
- scarabin0
- if it is a belief system it sure is the most productive one, that's for damn fucking surescarabin
- efficient killing machine. you know people were more healthier pre industrial revolution
10% more brain massyurimon - https://fbcdn-sphoto…scarabin
- that's why they died at 30, right? and only half of women survived childbirth?scarabin
- yeah, science is really holding us back matescarabin
- Dreadnoughtus schrani wasn't really *discovered* this week.********
- I should know. I've been waiting for the name to drop for a while now.
#geeklife******** - i think it was just posted on reddit this weekscarabin
- Morning_star0
The Higgs boson particle is thought to be part of the mechanism that gives matter its mass, but scientists do not fully understand it...
- No shit. And? This is nothing new. It's science in action.monospaced
- Ha ha, You haven't clicked on the link have you.Morning_star
- No, responding only to the part you wrote.monospaced
- It's just Hawkins going rogue again.
Morning_star
