Flash is back?
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- Miguex0
I doubt it, if you do a search far back enough I was one of the few here that believed flash was going to survive apple. It did not.
Maybe a couple of sites are still in flash sure, but only (like you mentioned) if there is a primary version for mobile / tablet devices which makes flash a secondary option really..
I used to build sites in flash, I haven't clicked on its application icon in probably 4 years
- Ummm... Flash certainly survived. I just downlaoded the new version and my plug-in was just updated.monospaced
- I think its saf to say its still in a very complicated coma, and they just changed his pajamasMiguex
- brushing his hair while it puts the lotion on its skin.74LEO
- ukit20
I was saying this in a thread a couple weeks ago...the choice to use Flash is still there, you just need an HTML version for tablets and phones. I think it's worth it for marketing site like the Perrier site where you get such an immersive experience. At the same time most people are not going to want Flash outside the context of a site like this. No more Roadrunner or MTV.com in Flash:)
- animatedgif0
Why do we keep blaming Apple?
You're acting as if Adobe was making an amazing product when they'd barely innovated at all in the past 10 years until WebGL came on the horizon then they shat out Stage3D which was a disaster.Beyond that what the fuck have they done with Flash? Oh that new timeline no one uses because it clearly been sketched on a napkin then posted to their outsourced developers in India who don't know how to implement shit correctly. Oh the Deco Brush which no one has used EVER.
Adobe had a head start by YEARS as a mobile technology and they just sat on it and did fuck all, when the iPhone came about they did a slap dash port that ran like shit, Apple wanted nothing to do with it but it was allowed to export to the app store... a privilege which adobe charged it's customers a whole new version of CS(5.5) to do. Then they couldn't even be bothered supporting their Android plugin after Shantanu Narayen popping up on blogs every other week spouting "OPEN OPEN OPEN".
They didn't even fucking fight, they just let better technologies walk all over them while crying it wasn't fair.
They've farmed all their developer talent out to India pretty much apart from the small After Effects team, what a coincidence, that's the only piece of software they make that actually gets better every version.
Fuck Adobe, all their management cares about is analytics, campaign management and document workflow systems. They couldn't give a fucking shit about the creative community or building decent software. Just compare adobe.com to autodesk.com, maxon.net, pixologic.com : Adobe is just spouting crap about marketing systems and "business solutions" the others are showcasing their latest tools for making CREATIVE work.
Let it fucking die
http://www.ro.me & http://thecarpandtheseagull.thec…
Pretty much kick the shit out of anything done in Flash in recent years anyway and it's only gonna get better from here on out http://www.joystiq.com/2013/03/2…- Exactly!monospaced
- Flash died the moment Jobs said "No Flash on iPhone". Period. Those few words sealed its fate.formed
- Except at that point the iPhone hadn't been released and MOST PEOPLE called FAIL before launch.monospaced
- You can't blame ONE PHONE for a completely unrelated technology failing to keep up.monospaced
- and Flash was available on Android anyway which has a bigger install base apparentlyanimatedgif
- Adobe needs to take responsibility for their failingsanimatedgif
- exactly, Flash WAS available on mobile phones, but it sucked fucking donkey balls and Adobe let it diemonospaced
- "We are sorry but it's an experiment designed with Google Chrome in mind" FFFUUUpauliusuza
- lol @ new timeline. So true.fyoucher1
- mekk0
A huge-ass flash website with mobile fallback is still cheaper than creating complex animations with html&js. Thats why.
- formed0
ag - ironic that when I click on that link it says "Hmm. While your browser seems to support WebGL, it is disabled or unavailable. If possible, please ensure that you are running the latest drivers for your video card."
Got a new computer and latest browser here. So much for any compatibility (also, the buttons rollovers are inconsistent, and yeah, that was something I cared about - the details - when Flash was around. Now I've given up on anything that polished).
[not going to argue that Adobe may have been slow, but Flash died the moment Jobs declared it would not run on Apple. Everything else is like looking at the old guy that got run over by a bus and saying "oh, well, he was old, he would have died someday anyway".]
- Jobs declared it wouldn't run on iOS and gave damn good reasons, he never said Apple.monospaced
- Flash died the moment Adobe LITERALLY gave up on the mobile platform and killed it themselves.monospaced
- Totally disagree, Jobs said it would not be supported. It died on that breath.formed
- So, despite the fact that dozens and dozens and dozens of OTHER phones DID run Flash that vaporware killed it?monospaced
- killed Flash? Jobs said that BEFORE the iPhone launched. Anyway, can't argue anymore, your'e pissing me off.monospaced
- CygnusZero40
Does anyone know anything about Adobe CQ5? Its a CMS. I heard that if you put Flash into it, it renders it out using HTML5 somehow. Any truth to this?
- yeah, but it converts the flashs to huge image-sequences. not really worth anything.uan
- chrisRG0
again, this is not about Adobe vs Apple.
this is about doing a better job, a better experience for users, what ever if it's webgl, canvas, flash, css3...
if you're not capable of decide what's best or if you avoid using tech X, well, just because someone said or just because it's from company Y, upload a plain png in a responsive boilerplate template.
- Hombre_Lobo0
@animatedgif
I'd have to disagree.to quote formed - "Flash died the moment Jobs said "No Flash on iPhone"."
Flash worked fine. It was a very good option before Apple IOS came along. It did what it did well. rich interactive web experiences and animation. Theres now a huge gap where it once was.
Its all well and good slating flash, but what have apple done to create a web format thats cross browser compatible?
And why do you let a company tell you what web formats are good or bad? If sony said gifs are bad, you shouldn't use them and we aren't going to support them, wouldn't that be retarded?
Also It did work on mobile. It worked on my old single core android phone, and now we have quad core phones. And adobe were in the very early stages of supporting mobile flash so it would only get better.
Apple were toolbags when they denied the Flash to IOS compiler (the day before its release iirc) after agreeing to it.
"a privilege which adobe charged it's customers a whole new version of CS(5.5) to do"
You're complained about adobe charging for software?
You have to pay $100 for an apple developer license.
And you need to do it on Mac.
With a newish OS.Apple banned flash for business reasons. Apple didn't want Flash as it would take some sales from the app store. It makes sense for them to do it for more revenue and they would be stupid not to.
But you cant give say Flash is bad, when it worked fine before Apple said they wouldn't support it. It was the only reliable cross browser solution for interactivity and animation.
And you could say now the web has become less exciting because Flash is no longer an option (this was a point made by moldero actually).
You want immersive experiences, try HTML5? well it will run like crap on most mobile devices and its less supported than Flash on desktop browsers.
Its a shame it couldn't have been supported. You cant blame Adobe for not supporting it when no one wants Flash now because fo the huge amount of IOS traffic.
- if people gave a fuck about Flash on mobile, they wouldn't have bought the iPhone, and Adobe wouldn't have killed it offmonospaced
- people gave more fcks about iphone than flash, why is that so hard to believe? I was a flash dev and wouldn't trade my iphone for a galaxy event todayMiguex
- iphone for a galaxy or a windows phone even to this day, I just stopped using flashMiguex
- exactly miguex. spot on.Hombre_Lobo
- formed0
To quote HL "Apple banned flash for business reasons. Apple didn't want Flash as it would take some sales from the app store."
I fail to see how anyone can argue that Jobs did not kill it. If iOS supported it, it would be thriving now, or at least be adjusted for mobile. Years have gone by now and we still don't see this "wonderful" HTML5 compatibility. I just see WordPress everywhere.
So far, nothing out there runs with the reliability that Flash did. Also, how can anyone support a company that dictates what runs on it? There should be a choice on what you want - anything on the internet!
When you control the market, your decisions will wipe out businesses and careers. Jobs did this with precision and Apple profited mightily from it.
Pretty black and white from here - dictator controls the market, takes all profits. Good business move, just lousy for the rest of us.- and now he's deadGeorgesIV
- I don't see how you can argue that Apple killed it! The logic is retarded. They just didn't support it! How do you not see this?monospaced
- not see this? This was their first phone, it was deficient in many ways, people didn't have to buy it!monospaced
- If people don't want to use something that dictates how they use it, they wouldn't have bought iPhones.monospaced
- And, when the iPhone came out, it was NOT in control of the market, it was the underdog.monospaced
- It's not like Flash was banned from Macs or anything.monospaced
- When you dominate a market you control how it evolves. Jobs knew this, there was no other reason than money.formed
- Your'e saying Jobs dominated the smartphone market BEFORE the iPhone was released? You crazy.monospaced
- Anyway, Android is the winner now anyway, and there's still no Flash.monospaced
- my god mono give it a rest.
adobe were fighting a losing battle. its simple.Hombre_Lobo
- animatedgif0
"Its all well and good slating flash, but what have apple done to create a web format thats cross browser compatible?"
Yeah lets all just ignore how much WebKit has done for the internet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web… it was nothing till Apple and Dave Hyatt got a hold of it.Lets also ignore they shipped the first mobile browser that wasn't fucking pathetic. Bet you don't remember how awful pocket IE or whatever blackberry offered was.
"Also It did work on mobile. It worked on my old single core android phone, and now we have quad core phones. And adobe were in the very early stages of supporting mobile flash so it would only get better"
Does desktop Flash even use more than 1 core yet?
Flash might have worked but Adobe had done nothing but sit on it for years. They barely even pushed the performance, any long term Mac user will remember excuses after excuse from them about how it wasn't their fault it ran so shitty on the Mac platform. Then they started getting criticised about performance as a reason they were not allowed on the iPhone, then magically in the space of about 3 months it got performance parity with Windows.
They're a lazy company, they don't respect their developers and they dug their own grave.
- no of cores aside, last i checked flash has better hardware acceleration support than HTML5.Hombre_Lobo
- and complex flash stuff runs way better than complex html 5 stuff does.Hombre_Lobo
- utopian0
Steve Jobs and Adobe both killed Flash.
Arrogance on behalf of Apple.
Laziness on behalf of Adobe.
- utopian0
Flash websites and interactive kiosks were about 80% of my freelance business. It took me a few years to re-adjust and re-tool my skills and design aesthetics to work within an HTML5 and iOS environment.
I will never use Adobe Flash to produce any work moving forward.
- instrmntl0
Adobe completely abandoned flash and any potential. It's sad because there is a lot of new market potential with Kinnect and Leap Motion.
- Well, they abandoned in mobile, flex (which i hate anyways), and shifted efforts to html5 gui programs.instrmntl
- Kind of a vote of no confidence in it's own product. All flash devs would rather they fight the good fight.instrmntl
- Or the ones that I've talked to about this.instrmntl
- how did they abandon it? Apple was too much of an opponent, iphone sales won out.Hombre_Lobo
- formed0
Not sure how they "abandoned" Flash. It was working just fine and was 99% of our websites. Granted, they were slow on the mobile adaptation/optimization, but for everything else it was far superior to anything we've seen since then.
We'll never use Flash either, but we'll also never create the level of polish that we did with Flash. From a designer's point of view (and perfectionist), I find that unfortunate.
So the web continues on with an overdose of mediocrity and WordPress themes. That's fine, just sad that the level of design will, most likely, not be the same anytime soon (if ever).
iOS had supported Flash it'd be alive. Flourishing, how knows, but it wouldn't be dead even if it hadn't changed since then.
- vaxorcist0
in my humble little opinion what trashed flash was not so much Apple, but the following:
1. actionscrapped
- i.e. programmer A does a flash thing for a cool-as-shit design house, then he randomly dissapears and programmer B has to "finish it" ....after taking one look at the innards of this project, he rolls his eyes and starts over.... this happens a LOT....2. overselling... flash is good at.... well, flashy things. not full-blown e-commerce sites, or an intra-net payroll application hour computation,etc.... a million things jquery and such can do easier
3. crash-o-matic ram hog flash actionscript code... yes, I'm sure it can be rewritten, but this is why lots of people like me surf with flashblock on, so some badly written banner ad code doesn't slow my system down....
4. ADHD.... multiple browser tabs mean people aren't looking for the fully immersive cinematic experience that your flash magnum opus was assuming people wanted.,.,.real users have, like 10-20 browser tabs open, FB, email, twitter, ebay, reddit, etc.. and they're probably NOT going to full-screen your flash thingie.. UNLIKE the room full of execs wowed into submission by a video projection of your flash brilliance.....
- +1 to all of thisAa77
- some good points fo sho!Hombre_Lobo
- Seen 1. happen SO many times.animatedgif
- uan0
"We'll never use Flash either, but we'll also never create the level of polish that we did with Flash. From a designer's point of view (and perfectionist), I find that unfortunate."
well, we need to polish our skills to accomplish that lost level, and that is actually happening right now on the web, remember that nike site with the parallax scrolling thing, or how about http://intothearctic.gp/ .
I think it's a change for the better, I recall a lot of stupid things that never worked right with flash, but we all seem to forget quickly.
Building amazing webpages is not a question of tools at your disposal, but of creativity.
- vaxorcist0
I honestly think flash could come back,....
but only if Adobe went... back to the future....
like, taking flash circa 10 or 12 years ago, renaming it "FlashLite"... timeline, simple 5 line snippets of actionscript, maybe some lightweight JSON or such connection stuff, and the timeline and shape tweening that designers loved so much... and make damn sure it ran really fast in tiny amounts of RAM.... and didn't need updating for security holes every 2 weeks.... just make it simple and make it work and we can party like it's 1999.....
- I feel like if they had done this back in '07 then Apple might not have objected wholeheartedly to supporting it in iOSmonospaced
- of course they would object.it doesn't change the reasons why apple disallowed flash.Hombre_Lobo
- but i do like to party...Hombre_Lobo
- ayport0
out of curiosity, do tools exist like the flash software to build presentations in jquery for example?
- Miguex0
Everyone relax ok? there's no reason to argue about this anymore if you REALLY think about it...
