Pulling the plug on a website
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- ETM0
@omg
Are you also defending the irrational behavior by the designer to continue piling up hours over 6 months when it sounds like milestone payment invoices were not being paid? Do you keep showing up to work when the paychecks stop?
This is as much about SF Fitness allegedly being dirt bags, as it is that we are to sympathize for his poor business practices. Why did he not see the signs? Why did he release the site to the customer when the account was delinquent? Ask those questions too?
We've only gotten one side of the story. We have no idea what's happened beyond the account of the designer.
- what's irrational about being a victim of brute businesses taking advantage?omg
- omg0
@ ETM
I've seen companies easily pull clients towards working through milestones with the promise of more money. Til they're broke, and the company succeeds in getting over on thousands of dollars. But here's the real kicker... "pay your debt and this page will be removed."if the business is in the right, they can sue. thats if they actually have a good case. so the page stays if the company was supposed to pay. if not, the page would have been removed by the courts or removed once payment has been established. everyone wins! except for the greedy con man
- instrmntl0
Putting that page up is kinda douchy. Who would hire him after reading that?
- The typography's not bad at all.mikotondria3
- what? it's horrible - no justification for justificationhans_glib
- ETM0
Indulge me. For some sort of meat space analogy... if you didn't pay a contractor final payment for some renos (reason not important)... would you be cool if they put up a sign on your lawn telling all your neighbors you're a dirtbag that doesn't pay? A big ol' bag o' dicks! Then they put a steel and lucite lock box over it, cemented in and you can't easily remove it until you pay and they come back. Is that cool?
I won't even address the idea if they could rip the reno out (though in some cases they could take fixtures etc.) like a site can be taken down.
This would NEVER happen. They call collections, they hassle you and they lien your property so that you can't sell or use it for collateral.
- Wouldn;t your neighbors sympathize and think the contractor was a dick?ETM
- Much like many SF Fitness customers are likely doing for SF Fitness?ETM
- calm downmonospaced
- Perception can be as powerful as right and wrong.ETM
- He deserves to paid, no doubt. I just can't rally around his methods.ETM
- When that next client screws you. See how well those collection agencies work out for you.omg
- in 10 years I have been screwed out of $500 dollars, because I am smart enough to enforce contracts and work on milestones.ETM
- milestones. No exceptions. It has rarely been a problem for my clients, either.ETM
- So I have little sympathy for bitching, moaning or sympathizing over piss poor business sense.ETM
- while that may be, doesn't excuse a company for screwing their designeromg
- nor blame a designer for rightfully defending themselves.omg
- but when push comes to shove... money can create disadvantages to force a designer to make bad business decisions.omg
- ... decisions unfortunately. why else would one work for 6 months without pay to follow a false promise.omg
- I have sympathy for not being paid. I have none for putting yourself in that position. I have none for complainers.ETM
- We simply have to agree to disagree is all. I understand your view point, I just approach it all differently.ETM
- In the early days of my business and money was tight, I sold electronics part time. It was shit. But I preferred that over complaining, or taking on clients without value.ETM
- complaining or taking on clients without value. I adhered to proper business practice.ETM
- I did this because I saw so many around me trying to claw their way out of the pit of low charge rates and being taken advantage of, under the guise of 'getting experience' or 'making a name'.ETM
- advantage of, under the guise of 'getting' experience or 'making a name'.ETM
- So I apologize, I am less sympathetic to many common plights in out industry that can be overcome. Including working without seeing money flowing.ETM
- working without money flowing from the client. That how I see the industry changing, not immature acts like this designer.ETM
- Sorry, I know. TLDR. Shut the hell up! ;/ETM
- while I understand your point that handling business better in the beginning would avoid these issues...omg
- i think this was an act of desperation on the designer's end.omg
- easily solvable with money.omg
- i don't see it as immature, but rather an act of desperation.omg
- and out of desperation, the designer turned to himself, to solve the matter at hand.omg
- it's more about survival, rather than worrying if whether or not, one has handled himself properlyomg
- because true immaturity, does not involve intelligently detailing truth, something many companies would like to hideomg
- this was presented very maturely by a designer who was put into a corner.omg
- for a business focused on health, they seem to be forcing death upon their designersomg
- companies need to care more for the people they employ. out of all fairness, you work, you get paid.omg
- That argument is invalidated though when he links from that page to another where he calls them "bag of dicks" etc. He invalidated himself by doing so. Thus my view of immaturity.ETM
- invalids himself, and hence my view of immaturity.ETM
- 'Tis a good debate, though :DETM
- well, emotions run deep when people steal from you... how can you hold that against someone?omg
- out of the 512 words on the main page to their customers, there is no colorful descriptions that you mentioned.omg
- all were very humble, and mature written wordsomg
- off site, in a small caption under a photo, a small mention of how the designer truly felt. far from immaturity.omg
- freedom of expression. and its the designer who has to live with the painful memory of a project gone bad.omg
- i think the comments below show the remorse for the designer. i know something you do not stand for.omg
- sublocked0
This is rad.
- mikotondria30
If you don't pay your electricity bill, they cut it off, and eventually they damage your credit, same with gas, or water.
If you don't pay your mortgage, they send round big men who surprisingly have well paid employment with their agents despite a list of criminal convictions for violence, and they drag you from your favorite chair and throw you into the street. If you defend yourself, the police arrest you and shoot your dog, and take you kids into care. The bank takes you house and sells it for more than you borrowed against it, and it keeps all the money you'd paid them on the loan, and even if they sell the house for less than you'd borrowed, they bill you for the difference. Again, at any point if you use similar force to defend yourself, you are taken to jail and or prison, where you will be raped and killed.
I hardly think that a few shitty comments along with depriving you of the use of something for which you've not paid can be considered unfair, inappropriate or unjust in this case, especially as the creditor is a small business owner, to whom any of the above state-sanctioned violence might now be increasingly likely.- None of the examples you give are intended to embarrass you personally or professionally.nb
- Instead of whining like a little bitch, this guy should have just put a polite "this site has been removed due to lack of payment" or whatever.nb
- ...payment." If that doesn't work, call a lawyer.nb
- Or, just call a collection agency. Lose 30%, get most of what you're owed.nb
- uuuuuu0
reminds me of this story since we are talking about unpaid services and legalities and this is related .... I read a news article about a woman who hired a moving company for about $900 to move all her stuff including her children's stuff to a new place but for some reason was unable to pay the rest of the amount on delivery. So the moving company took all her stuff out of the house and locked it up in a wharehouse somewhere and sent an invoice for almost double for late fees and additional expenses. She wound up going without her furniture or clothes or anything for a like a month or something. Anyway she took them to court herself and was awarded 25k in damages and the company's owner was charged with extortion. His defense was basically "I run a business." Didn't work.
- omg0
With just HTML and CSS, anyone can be a hacker these days!
- bulletfactory0
As previously stated multiple times, he should have taken down the site, with a short message about failure pay... BUT added a PayPal button below the message which allows the company to pay in full, but adds 15% late fee to the bill.
- Llyod0
yelp review:
"No one really seemed to take "working out" seriously. It was more like a bath house. Beware of the locker rooms."This guy is in Europe, he's not getting sued.
- omg0
- dMullins0
There were a few elements of copy that really worked. They should have just left it at, "This is why companies are forced out of business." The personal attacks were weak.
- ukit20
They should have left it at taking down the site. Trashing the company directly to their customers is dumb and unprofessional. And opens up legal action from the company.
- dbloc0
I approve.
- omg0
apparently Gold's gym has been heavily screwing the community for many years. FitnessSF didn't fall too far from the tree when they repacked their business under a different name.
- ukit20
There are a couple levels of incompetence here:
-Designer works for half a year on a project without demanding deposit or milestone payments
-Company blows off designer who also has control over site hosting
- BusterBoy0
Designer = naive
Customer = asshatMature move would have been to just take the site down completely. Savvy move would have been to stop work LONG before it got to this stage.
- ETM0
I am sure the truth lies somewhere in the middle, but it appears like a defamation lawsuit may be fully justifiable, if SF Fitness wanted to pursue it.
- It'd be pretty much a waste of time and money, since neither party is in the same jurisdiction or continent.Continuity
- pango0
anyone took screen shot?
too late to the party :(