Freelance vs Permanent 2012
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- clearThoughts0
Any thoughts on developing your management skills as a freelancer?
- maikel0
It depends who you work for.
Freelancing for nice agencies gives nurture you creatively. Large corporate clients will nurture your wallet. As a permie you know you will be able to pay your mortgage every month and you can pull a sicky now and again.It is best what makes you happy.
HOWEVAH
- Contractors on average earn better
- Permies work is more relaxed
- Contractors rarely are key people at strategy level, they normally are extremely skilful foot soldiers.
- omg0
I've also seen full time design positions filled by people who have not even gone to an art or design school. So they maintain these positions via seniority and management techniques. Problem is that they've become directors in positions, they can't offer and valuable contribution to trained designers but delegate work.
- d_rek0
I've been freelancing a lot lately but it's still doesn't add up to my salaried full-time position. I would have to work 20+ similar freelance jobs/year to bring me even close to my salary. And that doesn't cover benefits.
My full-time is actually a pretty cushy in-house gig and because of a host of personal obligations (Infant at home, house, student loans, etc.) I couldn't honestly set the freelance ship asail in good conscience right now. Thankfully, the gig is pretty insulated against ignorant management and an inept marketing department. My team pretty much offers their own level of expertise and service to the rest of the company as a whole while taking on some external paying work. All in all it's a good gig for now.
- woodyBatts0
I posted a response to ETM and lvl_13 that may be seful as a comment
As a freelancer working 12 hours a day, We presume that I am working hard not smart, but I have many clients and multiple businesses. I am not simply slaving at a computer all day. I design, prospect, deal with business crap, sell products, develop products, paint, try to sell & show my paintings. The big takeaway is that it's a lifestyle and it's not for everyone. I am trying to build my own agency and most of my friends and colleagues look at me with puzzled faces when I tell them my goals.
As a freelancer one of the mistakes I made in the past was relying on a sole client. Looking back it is so obvious but at the time I just trying to pay rent. The client I am speaking of was a full time permalance gig that didn't pay me for three months. It got pretty bad as I was young and just moved to NYC...but I made it through and after that I learned to diversify my income streams.
Yes I'm American...lol.
- Smart would mean hiring people. I make more money having 2 other people do work for me and I collect off the top.ETM
- I still get to do the projects I enjoy, and have a life, while not dying in front of a screen like a S. Korean MMO player.ETM
- I also learned a great deal of useful people/time/project management skills.ETM
- I have employees ETM, but I hear what you are sayingwoodyBatts
- Sorry, don't want to sound like I am getting in your biz. Just hate seeing freelancers burn out when there are options.ETM
- But I also know when building, you do have to take a lot on, if you want to be successful.ETM
- So in that regard, good on you, best of luck, and just know when it's time for R&R.ETM
- No worries, I appreciate your comments. And you are absolutely right.woodyBatts
- lvl_130
@woody, you're right about the whole lifestyle choice. diversifying your day enough could be your saving grace. i, for one, like doing completely unrelated things with my free time. but more power to you for loving what you do, and doing what you love.
*high five
- desmo0
I've been freelancing for 5+ years now. Its been great so far. I do miss some office culture though. The ability to bounce ideas and get instant critiques from studio mates... I guess that is what QBN is for? Ha!
The other thing that really sucks is the admin part. Chasing clients, paper work, etc. The worst.
- clearThoughts0
I've been freelancing for agencies or clients on site. And think it is the way forward.
If you have the skills, it's a no brainer.
If you're the managing type who can't design shit, then I suppose it is not an option.Maybe in the future nobody would work full time anymore.
- With an uncertain market, I see this becoming the norm with agencies.desmo
- ETM0
Hourly Rate Calculator - For starting out as a Freelancer
I found this great spreadsheet online years ago. You decide how much you want to make a year and it will tell you what you need to charge, how many hours to work and help you figure for operating costs.
Just go to File > Download if you want the spreadsheet.
https://docs.google.com/open?id=…- I'll keep it available for a little while.ETM
- Nice.woodyBatts
- t.hanks!fooler
- isakosmo0
How random to see this?! Been freelance for a year, and one of my clients last night offered a full time position with a view of managing a small team within a couple of months. Not sure what to do?! Wasn't planning on going permanent again as freelance is going really well, but the company's nice, the jobs are some of the best I've done and I'd be made manager. Means taking a 5k paycut though and not taking my Jan off for snowboarding like i'd planned to do... Agh.
- clearThoughts0
@isakosmo I think if it means developing new skills it might be worth doing it for 2-3 years, then go back to freelance.
I have to say from a lifestyle point of view, Freelance is much better.
- ArmandoEstrada0
Ive been freelancing for about 10 years now, wont trade it in for the world. Some year were amazing financially, others not so hot. It is a struggle every day though....
- Why is it a struggle?ETM
- Because the invoices can stop going out any day.....ArmandoEstrada
- fyoucher10
On my own for 14 years only holding a FT position once (where I also freelanced at the same time).
Fulltime:
- Work hours are the same. You get off on the weekends and holidays. 9am - 6pm and then you're done with work, don't have to think about it too much after that.
- You know how much loot you're making every week.
- You'll make a decent salary.
- You have a job title.
- Health insurance.
- You get to see people in person.
- You probably have to commute. Possibly a real shitty commute.Freelance:
- You probably have to commute. Down your stairs.
- You have co-workers, mainly your dog.
- You have health insurance but you pay out of your ass for it.
- You have a lot of job titles. Basically everyone's. You do everything.
- You have no fucking clue how much you'll make next week.
- You can literally make 10 times as much as you do at a full-time job but you can also not make shit.
- You actually have to go out and get the work, get new busines, and maintain it.
- You think you'll have more free time but you'll actually be working twice as much.
- When everyone is off of work and in bed, you're still thinking about how you could do things better and everything you'll be doing the next day. You're never off.
- You work weekends. A lot. And even holidays.
- You'll have to deal with a ton of stress. But that's also what makes you stronger and better in everything.
- You'll make a lot of mistakes, but you'll learn from them VERY quickly.Freelance is all about how much you want to put into it. The people I know that DON'T work too hard at it (especially the folks who say they don't work that much), also don't last very long at it. The people I know that work very hard at it, are very successful. Then there's the in-betweeners, folks who work normal hours every week - which is actually the hardest thing to do.
I used to work like a madman (think 12+hrs a day, 6-7 days a week), now I attempt to balance it and make as much free time to spend with my family. However, I'm still working on average 55-60 hours a week.
Freelance is definitely not for everyone.
- Definitely thisnocomply
- If I am not mistaken I believe I took some of this advice from you many years ago, thanks!woodyBatts
- ETM0
For those of you struggling, you are doing it wrong.
For example, surfing QBN is "research/development". Make sure to bill for that. So is watching Madmen or The Pitch. Bill for that too.
Make sure you have the dog around when you eat lunch. Talk to it about your project and write it off as a business lunch. Also charge back the time to the client that you were discussing as "meetings/consultations". If you're dog's name is patches, you are doing it wrong. Change it William James Powers. On the invoice, indicate William James Powers as present for the time billed. The name sounds important, no one will ask.
Buy some snacks / cold plates for when you watch porn, write that off as a work social or gathering. If you have a sketchy client, put 'em on speaker phone and boom, meeting.
Really, what is the problem?
- clearThoughts0
I think I wasn't clear when I started the post.
But when I meant Freelance here, I meant 'contracting' really. Which in London is referred as Freelancing in the industry.So not talking about doing a website for your local baker working 16hs a day. But working on a Freelance basis for big clients or on a Freelance basis on-site at an agency. 9-5 or smthg like that.
More and more I hear from friends of mine that were CD's or AD's at big agencies, that freelancing is the way to go.
But there seems to be some pros and cons. I think before the Internet this was simply not possible. But now we are getting to the point where it doesn't make much sense for top creative people to be full time in Advertising.
- I think everyone here is talking about what you're talking about.fyoucher1
- Some folks are just on different levels...fyoucher1
- < Thisjonnypompita
- fooler0
My first real design job 15 years ago was freelancing for a major corporation for nearly 3 years. It would have kept going but I decided to take my talents out of state. I struggled for years to make as much as I did freelancing all those years, only coming close to matching it 2 years ago. That year I was under contract for another major corporation (basically freelancing). I've also had plenty of full time positions in those years that hardly pay but are usually easy 9-5 salary with benefits positions.
Just last month I was forced to leave my last in house job and immediately was offered 1 month contracts at 2 different places. The one I choose is still feeding me work and I'm making twice as much as I did as a fulltime employee. The only down side is the 10 hour days and intense deadlines. No more taking 24 hours to rescale a logo, make a JPEG or tell someone for the 100 time what are official corporate PMS colors are. Now it's work work work work, I hardly have to check QBN anymore during the week.
- clearThoughts0
^ but you get more money and better work in your portfolio
- breadlegz0
Freelancing (in my opinion) is a MUCH better option if you have the balls to go out and get your own clients as opposed to sitting in your pants waiting for the work to come in.
As other people have said, it''s not for everyone. You have to be very self motivated and not Afraid to learn some sales skillz...
If you can do that though, you can make six figures.