Freelance vs Permanent 2012
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- ahli0
yes! so AWESOME to be away from bullshit office-politics!!
- clearThoughts0
I think I wasn't clear when I started the post.
But when I meant Freelance here, I meant 'contracting' really. Which in London is referred as Freelancing in the industry.So not talking about doing a website for your local baker working 16hs a day. But working on a Freelance basis for big clients or on a Freelance basis on-site at an agency. 9-5 or smthg like that.
More and more I hear from friends of mine that were CD's or AD's at big agencies, that freelancing is the way to go.
But there seems to be some pros and cons. I think before the Internet this was simply not possible. But now we are getting to the point where it doesn't make much sense for top creative people to be full time in Advertising.
- I think everyone here is talking about what you're talking about.fyoucher1
- Some folks are just on different levels...fyoucher1
- < Thisjonnypompita
- scrap_paper0
There are pluses and minus to both. The one thing about freelancing is that you start to learn more about the actual "Business" of design where being in an in house position can shield you from that for a big chunk of your career unless you really seek out the knowledge with the principals of the company you are working with.
The one thing I will say beyond a doubt is that there is no such thing as security, in house or freelance. You always have to fight to build your own and always be aware the clients or bosses need to understand your value to keep you in work.
- woodyBatts0
I posted a response to ETM and lvl_13 that may be seful as a comment
As a freelancer working 12 hours a day, We presume that I am working hard not smart, but I have many clients and multiple businesses. I am not simply slaving at a computer all day. I design, prospect, deal with business crap, sell products, develop products, paint, try to sell & show my paintings. The big takeaway is that it's a lifestyle and it's not for everyone. I am trying to build my own agency and most of my friends and colleagues look at me with puzzled faces when I tell them my goals.
As a freelancer one of the mistakes I made in the past was relying on a sole client. Looking back it is so obvious but at the time I just trying to pay rent. The client I am speaking of was a full time permalance gig that didn't pay me for three months. It got pretty bad as I was young and just moved to NYC...but I made it through and after that I learned to diversify my income streams.
Yes I'm American...lol.
- Smart would mean hiring people. I make more money having 2 other people do work for me and I collect off the top.ETM
- I still get to do the projects I enjoy, and have a life, while not dying in front of a screen like a S. Korean MMO player.ETM
- I also learned a great deal of useful people/time/project management skills.ETM
- I have employees ETM, but I hear what you are sayingwoodyBatts
- Sorry, don't want to sound like I am getting in your biz. Just hate seeing freelancers burn out when there are options.ETM
- But I also know when building, you do have to take a lot on, if you want to be successful.ETM
- So in that regard, good on you, best of luck, and just know when it's time for R&R.ETM
- No worries, I appreciate your comments. And you are absolutely right.woodyBatts
- kingsteven0
my brother has worked his way up through studios eventually finding a good senior designer role... i've always been freelance (with a few long stints here and there). for a while i was able to rub it in his face but now he earns as much as I do in a good year, travels a lot through work, gets paid monthly and looks about 5 years younger... (he's two years older) if i could do it all again.
- omg0
"Guess permanent you can grow, have more passion, ideas, ownership?"
In recent times I found that these permanent positions are filled with people who actually DO NOT GROW! They have no passion or any ideas, especially with a company that does not care about them. Perhaps it depends on how the company really values their employees. But their designs are stale, and the only other true aspect that they have is a "sense" of ownership. However they don't own shit!
- Have seen this. I think the stability stops them pushing themselvesahli
- jonnypompita0
There is no such thing as security. Look at all the 401k's and retirement accounts that were ravaged in the crisis a few years ago. Freelance is the way to go, at least in digital/interactive. In 2008 I walked away from the disfunctional agencies and their bullshit for good and have never looked back. The money from brands has been pouring into digital in the last few years and it shows no sign of slowing down. Once you establish yourself and grow your network you will actually be turning down work. Most agencies are understaffed and they are full of depressed and demoralized staffers and it is reflected in the stale work. That is where you, the hot-shot freelancer comes in and saves the day all while getting paid VERY well and banging the hot designer interns. : )
- Not to mention all the new startups desperate for designers.jonnypompita
- ETM0
^
I think many resign to being a cog. The ones that don't have left for new employers, freelance or start their own studio.
- fooler0
My first real design job 15 years ago was freelancing for a major corporation for nearly 3 years. It would have kept going but I decided to take my talents out of state. I struggled for years to make as much as I did freelancing all those years, only coming close to matching it 2 years ago. That year I was under contract for another major corporation (basically freelancing). I've also had plenty of full time positions in those years that hardly pay but are usually easy 9-5 salary with benefits positions.
Just last month I was forced to leave my last in house job and immediately was offered 1 month contracts at 2 different places. The one I choose is still feeding me work and I'm making twice as much as I did as a fulltime employee. The only down side is the 10 hour days and intense deadlines. No more taking 24 hours to rescale a logo, make a JPEG or tell someone for the 100 time what are official corporate PMS colors are. Now it's work work work work, I hardly have to check QBN anymore during the week.
- lvl_130
@woody, you're right about the whole lifestyle choice. diversifying your day enough could be your saving grace. i, for one, like doing completely unrelated things with my free time. but more power to you for loving what you do, and doing what you love.
*high five
- desmo0
I've been freelancing for 5+ years now. Its been great so far. I do miss some office culture though. The ability to bounce ideas and get instant critiques from studio mates... I guess that is what QBN is for? Ha!
The other thing that really sucks is the admin part. Chasing clients, paper work, etc. The worst.
- clearThoughts0
I've been freelancing for agencies or clients on site. And think it is the way forward.
If you have the skills, it's a no brainer.
If you're the managing type who can't design shit, then I suppose it is not an option.Maybe in the future nobody would work full time anymore.
- With an uncertain market, I see this becoming the norm with agencies.desmo
- ETM0
Hourly Rate Calculator - For starting out as a Freelancer
I found this great spreadsheet online years ago. You decide how much you want to make a year and it will tell you what you need to charge, how many hours to work and help you figure for operating costs.
Just go to File > Download if you want the spreadsheet.
https://docs.google.com/open?id=…- I'll keep it available for a little while.ETM
- Nice.woodyBatts
- t.hanks!fooler
- isakosmo0
How random to see this?! Been freelance for a year, and one of my clients last night offered a full time position with a view of managing a small team within a couple of months. Not sure what to do?! Wasn't planning on going permanent again as freelance is going really well, but the company's nice, the jobs are some of the best I've done and I'd be made manager. Means taking a 5k paycut though and not taking my Jan off for snowboarding like i'd planned to do... Agh.
- clearThoughts0
Any thoughts on developing your management skills as a freelancer?
- maikel0
It depends who you work for.
Freelancing for nice agencies gives nurture you creatively. Large corporate clients will nurture your wallet. As a permie you know you will be able to pay your mortgage every month and you can pull a sicky now and again.It is best what makes you happy.
HOWEVAH
- Contractors on average earn better
- Permies work is more relaxed
- Contractors rarely are key people at strategy level, they normally are extremely skilful foot soldiers.
- clearThoughts0
^ but you get more money and better work in your portfolio
- clearThoughts0
@isakosmo I think if it means developing new skills it might be worth doing it for 2-3 years, then go back to freelance.
I have to say from a lifestyle point of view, Freelance is much better.