Detained for photography in Baltimore
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- plash0
there is no obligation to be nice by either party. in this situation those cops are in the wrong, (it happens) my point is that there is very little consequence for them cops to be wrong.
now, if a citizen is wrong.. whats the consequence , jail time, financial compensation of thousands of dollars (fines). people lives are destroyed . in this case its civil..
( and thanks for keeping this conversation civil. =D )ill post again.. Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
- big daddy ben frank- there is no LEGAL obligation to be nice. There is an inherent unenforceable, mostly ignored social obligation howeverlocustsloth
- One that would make most things a lot easier if more strictly followedlocustsloth
- Dodecahedron0
At the police and public level we're told people with cameras COULD be planning something or doing something illegal. The point is to make us nervous and make everyone suspicious of each other, even to police ourselves.
- plash0
no doubt that if we as a society were nicer but i dont live in that world. and america hasn't shown a kind history of to minorities or human rights for that matter. it has been through civil disobedience, and opposition to the law.
when i get asked for information It is MY right to give it. or would you like to live in a country where any cop can stop you regardless ... and you must comply without question. there are still a lot of countries that do that..
- dMullins0
So funny. You have to be from the area to understand the history. The public lightrail and trains used to be constantly bombed with graffiti. You couldn't go a day without a train/car getting buffed clean, and then getting painted over by the next day. So these days, they have that shit on lock, and they do everything they can to keep it that.
Also, you are near the Nation's capitol. Don't be suspect about shit, and definitely don't act like a dickhead like this guy.
- well, that makes sense then.bjladams
- All that being said, I think the guy had every right to stand his ground. Just didn't have to act like an ass about it.dMullins
- I've seen dudes stand up for their rights like an educated individual, and the cop leave the scene.dMullins
- It's all about HOW you do it.dMullins
- Aper0
Detained for stupidity. Why give cops grief when they're doing a job and all it takes is to let them know why your their.
- <locustsloth
- cops give themselves grief. when they have nothing better to do, the go around picking on people who aren't doing shit.CanHasQBN
- In this case it seems they were legitimately concerned enough to speak to him the rest was his own faultAper
- "you're theremonospaced
- bigkidfallsdown0
Pick and choose your battles. Personally, this is one that wouldn't have been worth fighting.
Look at my ID, x-ray my dick in an airport - I don't care just keep me safe.
- dibec0
Yes/No Aper. He had every right to be there and photograph. I don't think the way he went about it was correct by playing hardball.
- plash0
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
- An Historical Review of the Constitution and Government of Pennsylvania. (1759); Benjamin Franklin.
- dibec0
1. You can make a photograph of anything and anyone on any public property, except where a specific law prohibits it.
i.e. streets, sidewalks, town squares, parks, government buildings open to the public, and public libraries.
2. You may shoot on private property if it is open to the public, but you are obligated to stop if the owner requests it.
i.e. malls, retail stores, restaurants, banks, and office building lobbies.
3. Private property owners can prevent photography ON their property, but not photography OF their property from a public location.
4. Anyone can be photographed without consent when they are in a public place unless there is a reasonable expectation of privacy.
i.e. private homes, restrooms, dressing rooms, medical facilities, and phone booths.
5. Despite common misconceptions, the following subjects are almost always permissible:
* accidents, fire scenes, criminal activities
* children, celebrities, law enforcement officers
* bridges, infrastructure, transportation facilities
* residential, commercial, and industrial buildings6. Security is rarely an acceptable reason for restricting photography. Photographing from a public place cannot infringe on trade secrets, nor is it terrorist activity.
7. Private parties cannot detain you against your will unless a serious crime was committed in their presence. Those that do so may be subject to criminal and civil charges.
8. It is a crime for someone to threaten injury, detention, confiscation, or arrest because you are making photographs.
9. You are not obligated to provide your identity or reason for photographing unless questioned by a law enforcement officer and state law requires it.
10. Private parties have no right to confiscate your equipment without a court order. Even law enforcement officers must obtain one unless making an arrest. No one can force you to delete photos you have made.
These are general guidelines regarding the right to make photos and should not be interpreted as legal advice. If you need legal help, please contact a lawyer.
- plash0
i agree with you dibec. there are better way to handle the police. but i see this not on how a citizen complys to the state; but how the state manipulates the citizen.
too many people submit too quickly.
The penalty for a cop to misuse the law is FAR less severe than the citizen breaking it. we need to be stricter on the law enforcer who manipulates our constitutional rights with fear.
- doesnotexist0
you can tell the officer doesn't know what he's talking about--stuttering, no smooth speech... dick.
- dibec0
i totally agree plash. i have had my numerous episodes with officers and security guards. The cops are usually the most friendly, the security guards not so much.
- 74LEO0
Are the pigs taking pictures of him with their camera phones? The COP milita's job is to keep us inline. Good for him for standing up for whats left of the public infrastructure. I love it when cops and politicians call public space government space...like the government is some ruling body over us..
FUCK THEM!!!
pttp
- locustsloth0
Some of you sound like fucking high school kids "YEAH MAN FUCK AUTHORITY!!!"
The cops start out being perfectly reasonable. And they have an obligation to check out what could be suspicious activity, which reasonably includes taking pictures of high traffic transportation systems, as those seem to be common targets for attacks.
Had the photog given the same preamble he wrote out for the video about being a student and all, and showed his ID, he most likely would have been allowed to continue.
But instead he acted like a 3yr old, not wanting to do something because he believed he didn't have to. Being obstinate and elusive with police NEVER makes you look like a law-abiding citizen.
Now, i hate abuse of authority and power more than most things, but i don't see that as what was initially happening here. As citizens it is our duty comply with reasonable and reasonably stated requests from law enforcement officials.What if this guy had been someone of malicious intent, planning some sort of attack. Had something happened that could have been prevented by this sort of minor investigation, and officers stopped such an investigation because the person said "I have a right to do this" the officers would be hung by their nutsacks by the general populace.
It breaks down to "everything in moderation". Yeah, you shouldn't bend over and let police do whatever they want without question, but you also have to give a little, know that they have a job that you, as a citizen have ASKED them to do, and understand that underneath the uniform, they are also people, and at least deserve the basic amount of respect that one should give another person.
If you have the attitude of always being against cops, they will have a similar attitude about you.- There is NO amount of security that will stop hate from happening.plash
- and he Didn't "believe" he had a right not to.plash
- What harm (in a reasonable situation) would come from showing an id and stating why you're there if it's for an innocent reason?locustsloth
- reason?locustsloth
- Why try to subvert authority if the only reason you have to do so is because you can?locustsloth
- And you're right, no amount of authority can stop all acts of aggression, but at least you can TRY and stop or slow some of them, no?locustsloth
- them, no?locustsloth
- What harm? I believe i can walk down the street without proving who i am. where is the line? a bus stop?, a airport? a gas station?plash
- where do we draw the line in protection? these cops broke the law. we shouldn't have tolerance for it.plash
- Do you deny that the police had an obligation to at least see what the guy was up to?locustsloth
- especially in the name of "security"plash
- I do agree with you that law enforcement should investigate. but not at the expense of our freedom.plash
- The "where do you draw the line" argument is bullshit. You draw the line at common sense. Most of the successful terrorist attacks have occurred on mass transit systems, not from people merely walking down the street or simply waiting at a bus stoplocustsloth
- have occurred on mass transit systems, not from people merely walking down the street or simply waiting at a bus stoplocustsloth
- So when the guys said "i have a right to do this" without offering any other explanation, the cops should have just walked away?locustsloth
- dude, the line has be already defined. Our bill of rights, constitution amendments. oh what now that their job is harder..plash
- harder we should give up some rights?plash
- The cops asked no more than they would have if they stopped him in a car for speeding or driving erratically, how is that over the line?locustsloth
- over the line?locustsloth
- i don't think police should have carte blanche, but FFS, asking for an ID is out of bounds? Come on!locustsloth
- no its not, but if denied that is not outside the law. what about vaxorcist point.?plash
- do you agree that the cop did not know the law he is to enforce?plash
- our taxes pay for 32 defense programs so we dont have to give up our basic human freedoms!!!!74LEO
- locus, you sound like one of them.dMullins
- i never submit identification. ever. unless i have committed a crime, they have no luxury to put me in their system.dMullins
- vaxorcist0
http://www.krages.com/phoright.h…
or
http://www.krages.com/ThePhotogr…yes.. I kept my student ID for years, used it to get out of sticky situations.... and yes, having a DSLR makes people suspicious, whereas a 16 megapixel compact or an iPhone seems to go unnoticed.... whatever, seems more human nature / fear-o-rama than actual deterrence of anything....
Anyone planning an attack can use Google Earth on a free wifi cafe connection using a used laptop they bought for cash....
