HTML5 layout tags
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- ********0
i'm writing my next site in tables just to upset your html5 gods, neither the web or the client will care
- google will care.TheBlueOne
- not really, meta data will be correct and cms content will be new near daily********
- right in line with google practices********
- TheBlueOne0
Oh look..here's another billion dollar company using HTML5 structural markup.
Fucking Toyota.
Please,. tell me more about how this won't be read until "May"?
- Nike Snowboarding as well:
http://www.nikesnowb…TheBlueOne
- Nike Snowboarding as well:
- Boz0
Here's an interesting suggestion to W3C by Adobe for example which I think is super great.
Adobe proposes standard for magazine-like Web
http://news.cnet.com/8301-30685_…
- Nice to see Adobe getting involved...but this would be HTML6 or whatever they call the next standard********
- The nice thing is that they are going to keep working and not stop for years at a time like in the past********
- Nice to see Adobe getting involved...but this would be HTML6 or whatever they call the next standard
- ********0
@Boz
Naw, I think people don't use them because they haven't had time to consider it yet.
These tags are just hooks for your own design elements obviously. It's nice to have stuff like <header>, hell I found myself typing that many times over the years without thinking:)
- fadein110
I agree with Boz - its a way of making non-designers easily structure a page layout as do wordpress themese etc... It will stifle creativity in 90% of websites. And to be honest these debates bore me -
<div id="header"></div> vs <header></header>
much as i love working with the web its soooo fucking tedious.- That's like saying using a grid makes you less creative.********
- no its not - a grid is infinate possibilities - that framework doesn't...fadein11
- That's like saying using a grid makes you less creative.
- fadein110
@abettertomorrow - the grid argument doesnt really work - a grid has infinite possibilities and does not dictate where you put certain content types on it. This is prescribing where you put certain content (unless you change its inherent properties which kind of defeates the object and you may as well just use ids)... grids are nothing like this.
- ********0
@fadein11
This is more flexible than you think. These tags are associated with content and not layout. For instance your footer could be above the header layout-wise. So no contraints on creativity really.
Having an <h1> tag doesn't kill creativity does it? That's all this is, a way to mark up elements to help search engines and other applications better "understand" what your page is about.
- precisely what i said - so if your headers at the bottom of the page why would you call it a header... sigh, read what i saidfadein11
- fadein110
@abettertomorrow - i know what its for mate. Its called semantic markup. Sigh. Your missing my point. Its nothing like a grid used in design - nothing at all.
- ********0
I understand HTML doesn't work on popular versions of Internet Explorer
- ********0
@fadein11
"if your headers at the bottom of the page why would you call it a header"
If I had a header at the bottom of the page, I would still call it a header if it contained header-like information like the site name, global navigation, etc. It's all about the content and not the design/positioning. Separation of content and style and all that.
In terms of a comparison with grids, a grid is a way to structure space. Semantic markup is a way to structure content. But in neither case should there be any effect on creativity or originality of your design.
- And if you don't want to have a header or footer, then simply don't include those tags.********
- yep agreed - but its all a bit pointless really. why did you use the grid analogy then?fadein11
- I'm a designer - I wish I didnt have to code at all - but alas I do and I will have to use this anal shitfadein11
- And if you don't want to have a header or footer, then simply don't include those tags.
- Boz0
@instrmntl
It really didn't. Abettertomorrow asked why people are not using this type of markup/tags.. and 2 things come to mind as reasons.
1. Still unofficial aspects of HTML5 (even though usable in code, for many it's a deterrent because of commercial responsibility and evne the slightest possibility of incompatibilities).
2. Creativity issue with layouts as some people really want to have custom layouts that go beyond the markup they've set.When you start talking about both, you will get automatically negative responses from pro-HTML5, anti-Flash crowd (interestingly enough from mostly Apple fans I've noticed).
- and html 4 still doesnt work properly in approx 50% of browsers out there lolfadein11
- ********0
lol, Boz, only thing people are negative about is your stubborn refusal to understand this stuff. It's annoying because I was more interested in starting a thread about how to use these elements and here you are spreading disinfo.
So basically
1. The tags are done. Read the article I posted on the previous page which mentioned that HTML5 is at "last call" status. Either way none of these elements have changed in years, literally.
2. There are no creativity issues - here you are inventing another myth to muddy the waters..
Now I know you are knowledgable about Flash and other issues, don't waste time commenting on this before you get your facts straight.
- chill out - everyones allowed an opinion and he did make some valid pointsfadein11
- Hey, I'm sick of arguing about this stuff personally.********
- The trouble is his points weren't valid at all if you take time to actually check.********
- Mojo0
Whoever is saying not ready til 2020 doesn't get how it all works.
The main issue at the moment is IE.
IE6,7,8 do not allow you to style elements it doesn't understand (nav, header, etc) unless you create that element in the DOM first (Javascript).
So, unless your site looks fine with all your layout elements as display:inline, you'll need javascript to enable you to display:block those elements.
- This will get it to work n older IE
http://remysharp.com…********
- This will get it to work n older IE
- 3030
The is also other aspect of the HTML5. Actually HTML5 it is a buzz word for now and some people think that HTML5=CSS3. That's a bullshit.
For me, HTML5 brings in semantic tags but also huge potential of messy code - you can use lowercase, uppercase, etc.... Only one good thing about xHTML is, that coding style was forced, thus forcing (kind of) discipline.
What I like about HTML5 is the simplified video embedding, but there is a codecs war sitting just around the corner. Will see how it goes.
- ok_not_ok0
IE9 was released yesterday?
- kingsteven0
I admit to knowing nothing about HTML5, but how is abettertomorrow's argument for using <header> etc. any different from using any currently non-supported tag... <navigation> for example.
- i'm assuming all the browsers that support a transitional html5 spec parse whatever you throw at them...kingsteven
- ********0
@kingsteven
Argument for using them is just the same for other arguments for writing best practices code. First of all, just from a developer's point of view it results in cleaner markup and a better structured document. No more endless classes and ids for every last page element.
As for why use header and not some imaginary tag...Google and other web apps will be using these standard HTML5 tags for content indexing and other operations. So within the next couple years it will become standard to use this markup in order to aid data accessibility and SEO.
- this isnt true - or will make negligible difference - its all about content and inbound linksfadein11
- Boz0
the only thing those tags will help is scraping someone else's content from the site..and I don't see a lot of people using it for that reason as well. Imagine how easy it will be to scrape stuff for content from a 3rd party site. They are raising a stink on scrapers now, I can't imagine them being happy with <content> and <article> and other tags where it makes it like ridiculously simple.
Sure it helps Google but it also makes stealing content super easy.
Something to think about.
