HTML5 layout tags
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- ********
Just wondering if people starting to use them yet. Not talking about the rich media elements like video and canvas, but the new semantic layout tags such as header, nav, section, article, aside, footer...
It's nice to finally have semantic tags for page layout instead using ten million encapsulated divs for everything.
- ********0
bump
- Boz0
yeah good luck with that.. who's gonna do stuff like that on a website when the HTML5 doesn't have an official First Public Working Draft yet.
- ********0
Why not? There's no support issues at all as far as I know.
You're really just talking about additional tags that can be styled via CSS. It's a nice way of future proofing any sites you create now.
- Future proofing? The gold standard life cycle of a website is 2-3 years now. HTML5 won't be standard until 2020.********
- Future proofing? The gold standard life cycle of a website is 2-3 years now. HTML5 won't be standard until 2020.
- ********0
Example
A page like (simple as it is) this makes use of these elements for layout. Take a look at the source.
Do you think it's going to break on old browsers? Nope, works fine.
- Just need to attach a script like this for older IE browsers
http://remysharp.com…********
- Just need to attach a script like this for older IE browsers
- TheBlueOne0
boz..the site on your profile is from 2003, is one giant jpg image and you list "dynamic sites" as a specialty.
I mean, geez dude...get with the program. HTML5 is production ready and being used everyday.
- not production ready********
- Some aspects are production ready...and this is one of them********
- not production ready
- Boz0
^ lol.. yeah.. those of us who actually make sites and get on with the program don't have time to make flying cursor personal sites.
HTML5 is not production ready.
These things might change is what I'm saying so making anyting based on something that's not even official recommendation from W3C just seems unrealible.. When I'm done with a project I have no intention of going back and making sure that I'm changing stuff based on a floating standard yet.
- you can use Video tag here and there and Canvas but that's it.. and even video tag is a clusterfuck.Boz
- I have to make 3 different fallbacks to make it work.. Hey if you have time to do that and you can charge clients GO FOR IT!Boz
- That's because of browser support, not the spec changing********
- especially if you HAVE to support IE6phatwrx
- ********0
They may still be working on the microdata and other aspects of HTML5 people here probably don't care about, but this stuff is not gonna change. It would be weird and counterproductive to change the names of elements they already decided on years ago, and which have been implemented on thousands of sites.
Remember HTML5 is modular - some parts are production ready and essentially done. Remember Cufon for font rendering? That was HTML5, and certainly production ready.
- and it was bloated difficult and no one uses it anymore, so no point made********
- What's your point? Posting ignorant comments for some reason?********
- and it was bloated difficult and no one uses it anymore, so no point made
- ********0
Hmmm...unless you guys can point out some kind of specific issue with HTML5 layout I say its ready for use.
The newly published HTML5 developer spec uses these tags itself, why would they do that if there was not browser support now and in the future?
BTW, this particular aspect of HTML5 has nothing to do with competing with Flash, so relax.
- At the very least, it's time to start thinking about it. At some point in the next year or so, you're going to look silly coding HTML pages the "old way."********
- HTML pages the "old way."********
- correct.. maybe a year or two from now we will see it used properly.Boz
- At the very least, it's time to start thinking about it. At some point in the next year or so, you're going to look silly coding HTML pages the "old way."
- Boz0
nothing to do with Flash..
I have no intention of building sites based on something that's not even officially recognized by W3C no matter how usable it is..
It's like you never worked on commercial sites.. Do you have any idea what would happen if by any case something changes and it breaks my sites.. are you nuts? It's gonna cost me money, time and not to mention reputation.
There's a reason why people are still not using it fully. It's all demos, code playground and just making some experimental sites..
I would say you could see some sites using new tags and layouts after W3C comes out with official recommendation..
- and that's gonna be sometime after 2012 I believe.Boz
- You obviously aren't up on this stuff.TheBlueOne
- +1 perfect for small tests and sites but not LRG production sitesphatwrx
- ********0
i don't know why you'd bother arguing with boz.
- TheBlueOne0
You;re shitting me?
". those of us who actually make sites and get on with the program don't have time to make flying cursor personal sites."
Look man, you're obviously not up to date. It's not like a company with a $41 Billion dollar market cap is rollign out HTML5 sites
http://www.nikebetterworld.com/
I guess I;ll just sit here with my HTML5 and defer to you and your giant fucking jpg image sites from 1999.But hey, you're pro.
- Nike has always been on the edge.. that's the 1 site I keep seeing repeated over and over again.Boz
- ********0
^ Nice find TBO
Yeah take a look at the source of that Nike site
header, section, nav tags...
Trust me this stuff is going to be mainstream within the year and you are going to look pretty silly arguing that the spec is still going to change or that "HTML5 won't be ready til 2020" (a total myth based on misunderstanding of the timeline).
- everyone keeps posting that 1 site. Nobody is aruging that these things won't be adopted.. they will not be used for at least next year or two.Boz
- next year or two.Boz
- *blinksTheBlueOne
- but it's being used right now.TheBlueOne
- DeSiard0
i'm glad someone brought this up. I'm still trying to wrap my head around practical html5 layout. Here is some eye candy:
http://www.html5mania.com/
- ********0
Regarding the readiness of HTML5, this is a good read:
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/usisvde/…
A few highlights:
"Under the milestone timetable announced this week, the W3C said the Working Group will advance, in May 2011, HTML5 to "Last Call," the point at which the W3C thinks the standard's features are set....
The W3C expects no new features to be added after the Last Call. After Last Call is completed the group will take feedback only from implementers and through trials of the test suite."
In other words, the spec not being done argument is a red herring. It just takes a while to officially ratify these things when you're talking about these standards organizations. If you look back at the history of HTML, the specs were always published once the new features had been out in the field a few years.
Having said that, I don't recommend use of Canvas or other advanced features on mass market sites yet. Why? Not because the standard isn't done but because many people are still using IE7/ IE8 and will be for some time.
But the use of these layout tags will arrive earlier because they still work in older browsers. It's certainly time to start thinking about the timeline of any transition for these practices, especially for people in leadership roles at agencies and so on.
- it's not a red herring.. can't you read what you posted..Boz
- at the very least we might be using HTML5 stuff with some level of certainty after May.. until then it's still wip.Boz
- and that's as far as standard itself goes, then comes the nightmare with different browser implementations.Boz
- lol...cmon, this is getting comical Boz. They aren't gonna change anything between now and May.********
- You're just throwing FUD out because you see it as a threat to Flash********
- May?TheBlueOne
- there's no threat to Flash.. Flash and HTML5 will work together..and by next year Flash will be on a whole new level.. there isn't really a competition.Boz
- level.. there isn't really a competition.Boz
- Fair enough********
- TheBlueOne0
Sites that are utilizing aspects of the HTML5 spec:
CNN, Reuters, New York Times, Vimeo, Time, Major League Baseball, The White House, Virgin America, Sports Illustrated, Flickr, People Magazine, and TED.
Videe & Canvas tags, which you brought up Boz are ones I wouldn't necesaarily be rushing to use, but the new content tags re: layout? Why not? All modern browsers use them and all you need is one line of css and/or a simple js fix to make it work in older browsers.
- TheBlueOne0
article, aside, figure, footer, header, hgroup, menu, nav, section { display:block;}
- ********0
so why ask, then claim it is standard. seems like just looking for a bitch session.
- just do it if your ok with it.********
- EXACTLYBoz
- Gee, why we can't discuss design tech on a design blog? Go back to the politics thread you libertarian asshatTheBlueOne
- It sounds pretty loaded for a bitch sessions if u ask me. probably meant to segway into gay flash html5 debate********
- Figured it's a decent time to start thinking about it. IE9 being released yesterday and whatnot.********
- just do it if your ok with it.
- TheBlueOne0
Flash is and always was a specialty technology. The web is HTML.
Flash has it's uses, but it's not the web. It's a bell and whistle, not HTML5.
- ********0
I was just interested if people are starting to use the new elements and if so how.
Like DeSiard said, it's a bit of a paradigm shift if you are used to writing HTML4.
- Boz0
if anything these new tags will make sites even further appear as wordpress templates.. which is great for news sites, bad for creativity.
That may be one of the reasons why people don't use them.