Eroding app dev value
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- Boz
It's funny how people don't realize that Steve Jobs and Apple totally killed the value on app development. And now it's becoming a standard.
it's funny how developers can't see that.. people bust their balls now coding applications and ton of stuff to sell it for $0.99-$4.99 when they would have charged previously $30+ for the same amount of work..
and just wait for OSX App Store.. where people will be selling their apps for the same amount when they could have sold them for a lot more..
Funny.
- Amicus0
not really funny.
Besides, they created a whole new market for apps, so if yours is any good you'll potentially make the same or more money anyway.
- Boz0
the point is.. I mean what I noticed is that people create really really advanced applications now and sell them for $2.99..
Previously they could have sold their apps for $29.99, $40, $50, $100 and people would buy them..
The problem is that the "gold rush" when app market started out on mobile platform was a temporary thing.. you could have made millions overnight basically and the whole quantity/low price approach worked great.. but now.. due to saturation, people are investing insane amounts of time and effort to sell something for $5 or so a download because they can't charge more due to already established values.
App development has been insanely devalued. Developers are now mostly doing stuff like sweatshops.
Symantec and other companies have made billions selling their software for $50-$100 and millions of people bought it..
I think it is funny how everyone got suckered in.
- Amicus0
Funny thing is, it's the simple, focussed apps that are making the most money. (Unless you are talking 3d games like Need for Speed, and some of them are going for $15+)
- I paid $.99 for NFSShift and a few others. For iPad mind you. Most apps that take months to code are being sold for $4.99 or $2.99. Crazy.Boz
- ephix0
on other older mobile devices, no one bought $30, $40+ "mobile apps", nor will they now (few exceptions of course). funny how tomtom sells their iphone app for the amount you mentioned, and made a hell of a lot too. now fuck off troll.
- dumbass.. they would have made a 100x more if they sold it without using this new model.Boz
- wow you must be really smart. 100x more? even 2x more makes it more expensive than a standalone unitephix
- no idiot, mobile apps from before are nowhere near the same as "mobile apps" today..Boz
- today, mobile apps are basically running like desktop apps and have no connection to what it was before. STFU and go do some lame ass animations with filters in After Effects.Boz
- some lame ass animations with filters in After Effects and don't comment on shit you have no clue about.Boz
- Boz0
also.. once you go this path.. the existing software companies will start shutting down due to inability to compete.
For example.. let's say OSX app store begins.. I'm talking out of my ass now, but it's probably safe to assume that apps on that store will sell for cheap to attract people.. Apple doesn't care about developers, they care about their bottom line.. this will in turn, create a standard for lowering prices on software too.. so now developers will be force to sell their apps at a fraction of a cost to stay competitive. They'll have to work even more, for a lot less.
But not only that. This new approach, especially with app store on Mac will start killing those who don't go through app store on OSX... due to it's popularity with consumers who want everything for free or dirt cheap, Apple will effectively kill any other company trying to sell software without app store on a Mac platform because you just won't be able to compete on the price level not to mention convenience.
What's even more disturbing is that we are seeing this trend happening on PC platform as well..
As a developer in addition to being a designer, I am deeply concerned about this. I think we got screwed.
- make good shit, people will pay and you will make money. on the other hand, become a dinosaur.ephix
- it's not a matter of making great shit.. you will never ever be able to make the amount of money people did before because applications have been devalued.. can't you understand that..Boz
- because applications have been devalued.. can't you understand that..Boz
- boz, you're thinking out of your ass. go back to taking pictures in the shower.ephix
- you're an idiotBoz
- Scaggs0
What can I say? It's over.
- Boz0
Not saying it's over.. I just think it's a bit concerning that the value of apps in general (and our mobile devices, ipads are running some really advanced code and tons of stuff just like a desktop app) has been lowered significantly. We need to write more and more code and make very complex (even if specific applications) and then are expected to pretty much sell them for under $10.
I mean I understand.. nobody forces you to sell them for $10 but that's what this new market has set as a bar. We didn't have that bar before or it was much higher.
I really don't mind this personally as much as I'm writing platforms and apps I build for mobile and desktop are/will be free due to my income coming from different source but for people selling specific applications or having software companies I can see this as being a big deal.
- Scaggs0
I'm easy - I'll be long gone. Sweet release!
- ian0
But, and this is only my limited understanding of it, its about volume in the app store.
Consider a few years ago a developer may have created an app that sold for €30, but had limited exposure to clients and limited appeal. That same developer could create an app that retails for €5, but has the potential to sell much higher volumes of it, especially in the app store where you have a huge market that may not have heard of, nor a use for, the app before. The base retail price has come down but the potential yield is much higher.
For other apps, well say something like coda which retails for $99 vs dreamweaver for €543. They essentially do the same thing, but coda is much much cheaper. They can't compete with Adobe on marketing or market penetration, so they use price in a hope that shifting more volumes at a reduced rate with allow them to break even.
From articles that I've read on app developers they seemed to be excited by the propsect of the app store as it was a way of bypassing existing distribution methods (especially in gaming) to get a product to market.
- Boz0
I see what you are saying.. but the thing is that your volume needs to be a lot lot bigger.. due to huge saturation to these app marketplaces that are generating we are not at the same point of selling software even though it seems that those app stores serve more people.. They don't.. web serves everyone..
I think most devs have been pulled into this model because they saw this boom in the beginning and the first people who made apps made a bundle, but if you are selling apps now on the app markets it's not different than selling them on the web as before.. they are just much much cheaper now and possibly even more specific to the device you are using but that actually even backs up my point even further in terms of "work more, charge less" and of course you have to pay 30% or more fee to Apple or whoever runs the market.. for you to make money now you also have to cater and develop for all these different marketplaces that are closed up and almost 100% proprietary.
I think developer life got more complex and the value of mobile/tablet apps (as i mentioned that are pretty much on a desktop level these days) are totally sold for much lower than what they are probably worth in time and effort.
- ernexbcn0
There are many companies needing app development for marketing purposes, so there's an opportunity for small dev shops.
About entrepreneurs selling their own, well, if your app is good people will want it.
- < this, and clever dev shops will look for clients with this specific needContinuity
- this same logic is applied to market prior to app store model.. don't see how this justifies devaluation of app development?Boz
- developmentBoz
- raf0
This is the beauty of free market: the consumer wins as competition inevitably drags prices down.
I am only a developer 8 hours a day, the remaining non-sleeping 8 I am a consumer and I love AppStore prices.
The same happened to airfare in recent years: ticket prices used to cost fortune and everyone thought it had to be like that. Now that I can fly around Europe for peanuts I love it.
At the same time even the cheapest airlines' pilots earn shitload of money so I don't see this as a problem.
Raise your hand everyone who didn't think computer games were overpriced over the last 10 years.
All AppStore revealed is that you can pay $6 instead $40 and they still make a killing.BTW, plenty of AppStore apps are on sale now, ie. all of EA catalogue goes for $0.99 if anyone is interested. LonelyPlanet city guides for lots of Euro cities are free for a few days.
SketchBook Pro for both iPhone and iPad are on sale too.
- raf0
This also reminds me of...
—"I think records were just a little bubble through time and those who made a living from them for a while were lucky. There is no reason why anyone should have made so much money from selling records except that everything was right for this period of time..."
"It was a bit like if you had a source of whale blubber in the 1840s and it could be used as fuel. Before gas came along, if you traded in whale blubber, you were the richest man on Earth. Then gas came along and you'd be stuck with your whale blubber."
"Sorry mate – history's moving along. Recorded music equals whale blubber. Eventually, something else will replace it."
—Brian Eno
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/…
- DoktorDavid0
So, what we are actually talking about is the commoditization of the software space, where shelf dominance and volume sales are the way and the consumer wins.
Doesn't mean that previously higher priced applications were over priced for the quality they delivered - it just means a new model is in place. Look at any chain based grocery store and how products are positioned and focused - there's your development future.
Once development farms, primarily in India/Asia, were the norm (since the early 90's) this was inevitable. Quality of the application should be the determining factor regardless of cost and that is market based economy 101.
- great.. so now we are talking about computer science and programming as selling groceries? Some future.Boz
- PIZZA0
It's not Apples fault, developers decide the prices so they decided to race to the bottom. The prices were all rather high when it opened, Super Monkey Ball was $15 If I remember rightly... and that port was barely playable.
"Developers are now mostly doing stuff like sweatshops."
Cry me a river, no one is forcing them to develop iPhone apps. The can always go and develop corporate intranets if they want to charge miles over the fucking odds for something.- true, I suppose devs, more so than designers can cross over to corporate to make big monies.LukeO
- raf0
Wolfram Alpha was $50 or so when it launched. $0.99 on sale today, down from its regular $1.99
- abettertomorrow0
Well, I think software in general has always been too expensive.
Its always going to be a losing battle to try to artificially inflate the price of something that costs $0 to reproduce.
Bottom line is that if an app is successful in the app store, then the developer will make money. The number of copies sold doesn't exist in a vacuum, its dependent on the price.
- abettertomorrow0
Taking the example above, if you think Wolfram Alpha sells the same amount at $50 that it does at $1, its time to revisit Econ 101.
Lowering the price doesn't necessarily mean lost revenue, in many cases it probably means much more.
- not necessarily.. but the question is.. whether they sell 50 times more at $1.. actually at 70 cents because they have to give 30% to the app store owner.Boz
- give 30% to the app store owner.Boz
- In this case, I would almost guarantee the answer is yes. No one's gonna pay $50 for the Wolfram Alpha app:)abettertomorrow
- Plus, despite what you said above, the cost of developing an app is in no way equivalent to the cost of developing Powerpoint or Photoshop.abettertomorrow
- Adobe After Effects or Visual Studio or other software that requires a large team and tons of time and moneyabettertomorrow
- Boz0
<em>Its always going to be a losing battle to try to artificially inflate the price of something that costs $0 to reproduce.
</em>LOL.. how is it costing $0 to produce.. and the fact that someone has to sit there for hours to code shit.. and before that to spend months and years learning to make that shit and go to college if anything and finish computer science.. and costs that go with that..
Yeah.. $0 to produce when you don't take anything in account.. you think writing software just comes out and poof there it is and then a person says, hm.. great I'll make a shit load of money and doesn't cost me a thing.
Ha ha.. what a weird to look at things..
The fact we have sub $10 is not good at all IMO.. not good for developers and anyone who wants to code for a living..
From a consumer stand point sure.. it's great.. hey I'd like everything for free but doesn't necessarily mean it's good..
Don't tell this to lawyers though.. nothing costs them they charge $300-$500 an hour ;)
- harlequino0
Couldn't disagree with you more. I'm in the app dev biz, and good developers are at a premium and difficult to find. Sure, you can find hacks with little experience for your small projects, but real guys who know the OS and can integrate custom tech that you would actually put on big brand projects, or to launch a product that you're investing 100k plus in are rare.