Sticking with Flash
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- Miguex0
Why would you be against having a choice to install what you want?
People complain about censorship all the time, so how is this different? I mean.. there is tons of SHIT apps out there, if we don't like how they perform, we ERASE THEM and give them 1 star and a bad rating, but at least we are exercising our right to choose to give it a chance.It's as simple as that, you don't like it, don't install it/ don't use it.
How would you feel if suddenly they decided that [insert music genre] wasn't allowed on the iTunes store anymore, because [insert whatever reason Apple gives to you]?
- there's a difference between a tool and expression. If you don't like your tools cos it doesn't work with your other tools, then get one that does.kpl
- tools, then get one that does.kpl
- huh?Miguex
- logical fallacy much?spifflink
- Kpl, that "tool" worked with all other tools. It's not broken.Peter
- Flash 10.1 for mobile arrived this month (BETA). It was never going to work on the original iPhone or iPad.ukit
- It's not tool being broken. The tool works, and has worked for years. They're just turned off. What I'm saying is it's a faulty analogy.Peter
- ...analogyPeter
- No, he was saying you can buy an iPad or not. It's not the same as free speech.ukit
- There are plenty of things that are not supported on other platforms (like IE!)ukit
- But I wouldn't consider it anything close to free speechukit
- you can choose to say what you want in another country as well, if we go by your rulesMiguex
- CyBrain0
I can't wait to see what will happen with the antitrust suit. I hope Apple gets what it has coming.
- georgesIII0
I tried the infamous Ipad yesterday, after getting spammed repeatedly by apple, I had to try it.
opening the browser and typing "html5 demo" showed me that most of the kill flash comments are from those who rather follow the voice of the leader than make their own assertions,
html5 still runs like crap on the ipad, I hug that baby for 30 min with people behind me poking me to make me move, but I held steady.I wanted to try all the html5 demos that were posted on QBN,
sadly the result were bad, crazy bad, almost ridiculous, few of the demos loaded and those who did just didn't work well enough with the touchscreen.imagine for a second if you could run flash on that retardware, it would be a totally different experience, I'm not ditching the whole html5 frenzy but give it another 5 years to get to flash level and we can compare both.
- CyBrain0
"give it another 5 years to get to flash level and we can compare both."
And imagine that comparison against Flash CS8 on what might be the 5th generation iPad. (running Cloud Browse 5?)
- eieio0
this pic always reminded me of some rich guy who's trying to figure out his $5,000 mac he just dished out for to check his emails. Keeps it tucked away somewhere in his $800,000 suburban mansion...that sort of guy- drives a volvoeieio
- $800,000 doesn't get a mansion in Silicon Valley. It gets an abandoned 1 car garage.boobs
- you miss my point. This sort of guy would live in Minnesota and be an engineereieio
- and he used to work for Control Data or Cray.... lots of those guys around.... with that facial expressionvaxorcist
- ukit0
I don't know what the confusion is over, did someone say, "HTML5 can do every single thing Flash does right now, and you must never use Flash again?"
I hear people talking about this like they expecting HTML5 to arrive on their doorstep in a box with a logo shooting flames, insert a CD-ROM and install it like Adobe CS5. Then press a button and recreate the Ecozoo site in HTML5. Absent that, the whole thing is a scam and Steve Jobs is a lying evil bastard.
Whereas in reality it's simply a specification that will be hashed out over the course of the next couple years and implemented by browsers as a step by step, constantly updating process. Browser implementation is gonna be a messy process of course, but browser makers are much more on the same page and working together this time than in the past where they were openly at war (although there are some exceptions like video codecs). Some uses of HTML5 will be viable now (like HTML5 video on devices like the iPad), some will be here in months, others will take years.
In terms of HTML5 vs Flash, the reason it's a bad idea to try and compare the two is not because they don't compete, but because the Flash-competing elements are a tiny subset of what HTML5 is trying to accomplish. That would be the <canvas>, <video> and <audio> tags along with JS. And also because it will take the efforts of third party developers (like John Resig did for Javascript) to provide useful frameworks that makes these appealing to use.
When people talk about the HTML5 spec not being complete until 2012 or even 2021, they leave out the fact that those rich media capabilities are the parts of the spec that are pretty much complete. The parts that are still being worked on are things that people probably aren't even thinking about when they talk about this like microdata, web storage and offline applications.
if you look at the WHATWG wiki they say:
"When will we be able to start using these new features?
You can use some of them now...Different parts of the specification are at different maturity levels. Some sections are already relatively stable and there are implementations that are already quite close to completion, and those features can be used today (e.g. <canvas>)."
The element that is lagging in terms those being ready for real world use is not the spec but browser support. But that's just a process that takes a little time to implement once the spec is ready.
So with something like <canvas>, that implementation process in terms of the final aspects began last year, and you already have fairly good support in all non-IE browsers for the basics of it. IE is the major thing holding all of this back, but you've already seen successful efforts to bridge the gap by taking advantage of IE's support for VML. And some cross-browser, real-world applications of HTML5 <canvas> have already been created thanks to the successful browser support combined with the IE approach, including some that many of you have probably already used, like Cufon for font rendering.
- Hombre_Lobo0
I agree with miguex.
If you buy a product with the an Internet browser on it, why should the maker of that piece of hardware decide for you what you can and can't view?
That's not right. And people can say all they like about flash and resource hunger, gimme a link to believeable sources that shows this an then let's be reminded most Sony ericsson phones OS are created on flash lite.
http://www.adobe.com/devnet/devi…
it can't be that CPU intensive.
- "it can't be that CPU intensive." lol. lol. lol.kpl
- Flash lite is nothing close to a full Flash Player. Seriously, you need to up your game Hombre.kpl
- i need to 'Up my game?' Thats what your mum said!!
wait a minute...Hombre_Lobo - well flash has been proven to run on mobile devices, so its not all bad. Html5 runs like poop, see above.Hombre_Lobo
- ukit0
There's also the issue of optimizing Flash for mobile
"You often hear people talking about the idea of developing once and deploying to every device. That sounds nice but it isn’t realistic. The real story is that you can create 80% of your application once, and then spend the remaining 20% of your time creating UIs that work well on the various devices. For instance, mobile devices obviously do not have as much horsepower as your quad-core tower. So once you get Flash Player 10.1 on your phone, don’t go to the F W A and expect those sites to run like they do on your desktop. Because of that you will need to do a lot of optimizations that you wouldn’t ordinarily worry about with desktop Flash. The UI of your application will also have to be optimized for smaller screens and will have to be touch-friendly, meaning not relying on things like roll over."
- That quote is directly from Adobeukit
- http://theflashblog.…ukit
- formed0
We'll just have to see how the competition does, as they will have Flash.
I am interested to see how the HP pad-thing does and how Dell's Streak does. I am praying they come to market with the functionality that is necessary to compete (unlike the iPhone's competition, first round, that looked pretty embarrassing imho, but this time they know what they are up against, nothing new on the iPad).
I wanna love Apple's devotion to great design, but without any functionality, it is just a fancy movie watcher (to me and my clients, anyway, and even then I can't watch the videos we make for clients as they are all Flash based when online, that ain't changing anytime soon!)
- dasmeteor0
I hate Steve Jobs.
- Hombre_Lobo0
me too dasmeteor...me too.
- hotroddy0
@georgesIII I couldn't find any working HTML5 demos on ipad either.
Some even went as far as crashing the browser. Couldn't help but think of comments made from people here that Flash is the leading cause of Safari crashes (which lead to it's omission on ipad). Thanks to Jobs and HTML5, looks like flash won't hold this title for very long.
- ukit0
You guys are so negative. Did you ever consider that the fact that no one has even released a touch screen tablet to compete with Apple means that it's a pretty difficult technological challenge?
Arstechnica had a look at the state of Android tablets here:
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/n…
Those demos, the ones dealing with <canvas> and other graphics experiments are showcasing the limits of what's possible with HTML5. In the cases where they are specifically optimized for mobile, I think you'll find they do work on iPad, like this for instance:
- tablets have been around for year man, what the hell are you even talking aboutMiguex
- according to wikipedia they been around for over 9 yearsMiguex
- People call lots of things a tablet...those earlier ones were much more like scaled down laptopsukit
- This kind of lightweight touch screen device that runs a phone OS is pretty differentukit
- PonyBoy0
just curious... if flash is so shitty... why does it run so nicely on PC's?
I opened my old laptop PC that's over 6 years old now... I even had to upgrade the flash player - Windows xp... 32 bit setup... smoooooooth... fassst... ... yuuuuuuum.
Lately on my Mac - Flash has literally seemed to slow down 'even more' than I've noticed in the past.
Also - when I'm developing flash on my Mac... I SWEAR it's gotten a bit choppy and is difficult to work with sometimes. Things take longer to happen / update... ... but ONLY in flash... ... not in photoshop / illy etc... ... ... I think it's a conspiracy... the recent Apple updates have code that tells our lil Macs to forsake the Flash... ... to treat it like a ginger...
... I love Flash... ...Mr. Jobs... please stop being such a retarded fag.
*returns to reading iPhone dev. tutorial
- ukit0
Consider this though, on Jan 27 Adobe writes this post, "iPad - A Broken Link:"
http://blogs.adobe.com/flashplat…
pointing out that "there's something important missing"
Then, 4 months later...
http://www.itpro.co.uk/622504/ad…
"Eager testers can sign up to try out the first betas of Flash Player 10.1 and Air 2.0, Adobe said today, as its chief executive admitted the software had been delayed until the second half of the year."
Yeah, no shit there was "something missing"...they hadn't built it yet LOL
I mean, yeah sure Jobs' opposition to Flash goes beyond that but it makes the initial post about lack of Flash on the iPad kind of silly.
- I think Adobe could create an amazing touch screen platform if they had Apple's cooperation.hotroddy
- That's a load of crap, Adobe had plenty of time to do it. "The onus is now on us" http://www.readwrite…ukit
- Jobs wants all the money he can getPixter
- sherm0
kind of getting sick of this fucking debate already. how about:
use it if u feel like, OR don't use it if u don't want to fucking use it because there are other options...
- SteveJobs0
yeah, i agree with sherm. i'm getting sick of this too. we've gone back and forth on this issue and debated every point and i'm really not sure who's trying to convince who of what any more.
for those who are anti-flash, are you trying to save the futures of those who have so much vested in the technology already to get them to 'see the light' so hopefully they're not made redundant any longer? do you really care to convince everyone that their plug-in technology is dated, slow, and a resource hog? is it important to remind everyone how apple game them their chance time and again?
for the pro-flash folks, your career's are probably safe, but it wouldn't hurt to learn some html5 for that one glorious day when *all* browsers support it. and let's just get over the fact that apple won't let anyone create apps with anything other than xcode and cocoa. it's their choice to make and their obviously content with it. the language is simple enough to pick up. yeah, you're gonna spend a couple months porting something that you should have just been able to cross-compile, but fuck it - it's jobs security and you've learned a new skillset.
it's just my opinion, but there's still a lot to be seen still from these big corporations and how their decision will sway the industry. in spite of the impressive ipad sales reported (2 million in the last two months i think?) i think it's too early to tell what impact jobs' decision will have on flash, so let's just sit back and chill the fuck out, ok?
- yea mofos act like ipads and iphones etc are dictating whats applicable for the rest of the web. so unilateral...sherm
- ukit0
- instrmntl0
I'm a mac person. Macbook, iPhone, and G5. I'll always love macs. That being said, they don't run as good as pcs. I had a sony cellphone 3 years ago that took 2mb photos with a flash. iPhones still dont have a flash. They have weaker technology to balance their slimmer, modern aesthetic. While I appreciate their design, their products suck. Flash doesn't work well on iPhones and iPads because theyre both a piece of shit, technology wise.