Steve Jobs and Flash...
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- ukit0
I think this is what Jobs wants, a market where Apple is off in it's own system and everyone else is dependent on Adobe. If Jobs is right, pushing the other platforms into the hands of Adobe could create a situation where the Flash-based Android and Windows developers are forced to standardize their functionality in order to maintain cross platform support. This leaves Apple as the mobile platform best able to differentiate itself from the rest since they can quickly push out new features without worrying about Adobe's support or the support of other platforms.
Not saying he is right or wrong but my guess would be this is the thinking behind it, moreso than concerns about monopolizing purchases through the app store.
- lukus_W0
Steve Jobs is scared .. otherwise he wouldn't be trying to explain himself. The essay isn't convincing.
- ukit0
Eh, the hell he is. Why would he deliberately bring this issue up over and over again if it wasn't a deliberate strategy on Apple's part. It may be the wrong strategy, we'll see a couple years from now, but clearly he's doing this for a reason and the Adobe/Google/MSFT counter-reaction is probably baked into the plan as well.
- Meeklo0
Apple is not only not "open", but If you been an Apple user for a long time, you know they are also "closed" with previous devices, we all known that every time they release a new update, we are in great danger of having our current device not being able to support new software technologies that is not limited to hardware updates.
For example, not being to record video on iPhone 3G, when the 3GS is able to, of course, you can do it perfectly fine even with the 1st gen iPhone if you jailbrake it, or download a 3rd party app.
So its obvious they don't offer you the possibility because they try to force you to upgrade hardware.
What about the Mini Display Port?
And music? is no secret, you want to put mp3s on your ipod, you can only do it through itunes.
The list can go on forever..
So whoever believes that Apple is an "open" company has not been a user for a long time, just wait 6 months and watch all your hardware become obsolete.
- fyoucher10
""Most Flash websites will need to be rewritten to support touch-based devices. If developers need to rewrite their Flash websites, why not use modern technologies like HTML5, CSS and JavaScript?""
Rewritten? Or just take out and modify the rollover and rollout code? How hard would that be? Why would I need to rewrite the entire website again?
- and why not make devices support current technologies instead?Meeklo
- ukit0
Cmon guys, what is Apple doing that other companies aren't?
Just one example, Microsoft wanted to let you Export to PDF from Office when Vista came out, guess what, Adobe slapped a lawsuit on that a$$ and Microsoft was forced to drop the feature.
Not exactly the move of a company committed to open standards. These companies will throw the word open around when it suits them.
- Apple's support of open standards sounds like a token gesture .. Apple makes a big deal of being open, but is only open when they feel like it. He criticises Adobe for not being open, but admits Apple aren't either. It's hypocritical.lukus_W
- open when they feel like it. He criticises Adobe for not being open, but admits Apple aren't either. It's hypocritical.lukus_W
- right, its not about not being open, but trying to pass for an open company, when they are just like M$Meeklo
- Open standards vs. letting people build 3rd party tools for your platform, different thingukit
- fyoucher10
Via MacRumors:
The Wall Street Journal is currently conducting an exclusive interview with Adobe CEO Shantanu Narayen regarding an open letter posted earlier today by Apple CEO Steve Jobs sharing his thoughts on Adobe's Flash technology and reasons why Apple has not included support for it on iPhone OS devices. Video clips and the full interview will be available later, but the Journal is currently providing live updates of the interview in progress.
In his opening comments, Narayen noted that Adobe believes in "open content", stressing that its Creative Suite software is designed to work on a number of different platforms and that the company remains committed to its vision that its software should be able to help people work across multiple operating systems. Narayen also noted that Adobe products, presumably referring to Flash, will be fully supported on the next version of the Android smartphone operating system, as confirmed by Google vice president Andy Rubin earlier this week.
In addressing Jobs' claims of technology issues with Flash, Narayen called the comments "really a smokescreen" and pointed to over 100 App Store applications created using Flash. Further countering Jobs' assertions, Narayen blamed Apple's operating systems for Flash-related crashes and called Jobs' claims of Flash hampering battery life on mobile devices "patently false". In general, Narayen also claimed that Flash issues highlighted in Jobs' letter are rooted in Apple's proprietary nature that prevents Adobe from innovating as they'd like.
Narayen again returned to his claim that Flash is an open standard, calling Jobs' claim of it being closed "amusing". Adobe's view of the world is multi-platform, allowing it to provide developers with tools to easily deploy their content across many devices and platforms, a concept that may not to Apple's benefit in trying to lock customers in to its ecosystem.
In conclusion, Narayen noted that customers have the ultimate voice in the dispute, and he believes that multi-platform solutions like Adobe's will win out.
- lukus_W0
@ukit;
I definitely think it's a business decision, but I also think that Steve Jobs might be a little 'scared' (although, maybe scared is the wrong word, as he's apparently fearless).
I think that there's a growing amount of bad-feeling towards Apple's recent heavy-handed 'business led' decisions.
When a person like Jobs feels the need to make an official statement about something like the Flash issue - I think it's because they've been painted into a corner. He's been characteristically evasive when asked about his position with Flash - a flat out, simple 'no' at the last keynotes speech, if I remember correctly.
He's now chosen to approach the subject with an essay - putting his case on the Apple website. I think when a person like Jobs feels like they have to justify a decision in such a verbose way, they are doing it because they feel pressured.
Explanations like this potentially put them (Apple) in a weaker position, imo - because the rhetoric can be now be systematically attacked and countered by any critics.
The motto of any tyrant, should always be 'never explain, never apologise'. It seems that Jobs has forgotten this.
- ukit0
I guess that part is open to debate, but why do you refer to him as a tyrant? Compared to who - Microsoft? Adobe? I referred above to a situation where Adobe acted pretty much in the exact same way as Apple in terms of protecting their proprietary format, the PDF.
There's a little bit of context needed here which is, throughout the entire history of the web, companies have suppressed open standards for their own interests. Is Steve making a dick move with this whole Flash thing? Maybe, but in a perverse way, at least he's doing it in the interest of open standards, rather than helping entrench a proprietary system as other companies have done.
- err0
Apple needs to kill the animated gif next. Im sure that animated gifs are at fault when I try to load qbns animated gif of the day. It for sure is not safari.
- ukit0
People seem to misunderstand the difference between open and closed standards, which is a fight Apple has been firmly on the right side of, and being "open" in terms of letting other companies develop for your platform. They aren't really the same issue, and Apple is good at one and bad the other.
- I agreeMeeklo
- people do misunderstand diff between closed and open standards, specially after Steve explains it with a nice graphicMeeklo
- their app approval process doesn't seem to streamline with fairness to all. i realize its a difference in the term open, but still.instrmntl
- Yeah completely different, and how's the approval for Air apps?ukit
- PonyBoy0
if you can write AS3... you can transition to writing C++... quickly...
... get over this shit already - Flash has been my money-maker for 5+ years now... but I'd be a fool to think it would always be that...
... god forbid you learn something new. ;)
- have fun when iphone apps are obsolete and become the next widget.instrmntl
- Have fun knowing OOP?
will do!... for years to come!PonyBoy - OOP is a programming structure, and not a language?instrmntl
- which is precisely why you can transition from as3 to c++ or the like... ...and many languages use this structure... SO LEARN IT!PonyBoy
- i know oop. i'm not learning c++ for an apple widget.instrmntl
- nerd fight, nerd fight!!vitamins
- lukus_W0
Apple are being too controlling .. I'm fine with that as long as they admit they're no longer the 'good guys'.
At least it was agreed that Microsoft were evil when they were at their height. Apple uses smoke and mirrors to appear otherwise - I find it distasteful.
Re: Jobs as a tyrant .. reading some of the stories told by people who've worked with him, it seems he runs a pretty tight ship, is alternately fearsome / dangerously charismatic - and is a player.
I'm not sure if that means he's a tyrant. Maybe any business leader is going to share similar characteristics?
I wouldn't say Adobe are better - but I would like to tell Jobs to fuck off .. because the visionary future he's trying to compose looks like a place I'd rather not experience.
He's all about playing the shareholder game, and he's a brilliantly clever man who wants to win at any cost. Thank god he decided to go into computing, rather than religion - just imagine if he'd started a cult!
- powertoni0
exactly what ponyboy said...quite frankly im suprised it has been as lucrative for as long as it has been, but its still something to mourn. flash was accessable, highly paid, & demand was omnipresent. It was there for anybody who didn't mind applying themselves to a challenging problem. In that sense it was amazing.
- Dodecahedron0
Honestly I have zero reason to justify buying a mac ever again.
- PonyBoy0
^^do you own an ipod?
- me ? no, i own an mp3 playerDodecahedron
- i only ask as the ipod touch seems to own the mp3 player market - and it's all about the apps now :)PonyBoy
- ukit0
Pony's right, technologies will change. 20 years from now, are you determined to still be using Flash?
I thought that was half the fun of this, learning new technologies.
Having said that, this whole HTML5 thing isn't ready for prime time on the non-mobile web yet. Wait til IE9 comes out and it'll be a whole new landscape.
- I think people see learning new technologies as a chore which is unfortunate...ideaist
- ...especially designers (like myself) who have crutched themselves up with flash over the years...ideaist
- if flash dies; then we all have to become developers / designers...ideaist
- it's just more "jack of al trades master of none" occurring which spreads people to thinly...ideaist
- I will NOT hack around with code instead of using a timeline, and a GUI for multimedia.CyBrain
- instrmntl0
Myspace >> Widgets >> Facebook Apps >> Apple Apps
am i the only one seeing a pattern?
- Yesukit
- ok, that question is stupid. but iphone apps arent going to be the end all platform. hate to break it to you.instrmntl
- no one is saying they're the end-all platform... but they are 'hot' right now... as is the transition to html5 etc...PonyBoy
- ... the point is that tech is moving on... either move on with it or sit here and bitch about it on the internet.PonyBoy
- i'm not bitching about anything. i've done projects for all of them. saying flash is ending because apps are hot is very short sighted.instrmntl
- sighted.instrmntl
- I never said Flash was ending either... ... instrmntl - you're not making much sense, duder.PonyBoy
- its like learning the facebook api, then they dump everything and old stuff is useless. its a waste of time learning it.instrmntl
- you're calling things 'widgets'...
a weather feed on your website is a 'widget'... a far cry from an oop appPonyBoy - i agree html5 is going to be great and epic and all, but its no reason to dump flash. everything will adapt.instrmntl