Which iPad

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  • ernexbcn0

    @lukus_W yeah I'm totally aware of the OtherOS issue with the new firmware of the PS3, that's total fucking bullshit because that was an advertised feature, and they also used that feature as an argument to try to prove that the PS3 was not a gaming device but a computing device (to get lower taxes for importing it).

    What Sony should do is offer a refund to any owner of a fat PS3 who requests it, because the only option they give you to retain that functionality is lose the ability to play online, access the PSN and in the future lose the ability to play new games (that require newer firmware) and even playing newer blu-ray titles.

  • inteliboy0

    what is this "closed platform" bullshit?? "lack of freedom"??

    The way the hacker nerds carry on is as if Apple has created some kind of evil nazi device. Get a fkn grip.

    The iPad (and these devices in general) aren't supposed to be full blown computers you know.... but are just simple devices to consume digital content. And that is okay. Really. Everything is going to be okay.

    No one bitches about the xbox's closed plaform, or nintendo's, or nokia's, or all the half-assed plasticy junk tablets etc. Why? Because it just doesn't matter. Lighten up.

    • Apple flavour koolaid anyone ;)lukus_W
    • Wake up, lukus_W. Closed systems are everywhere. Every brand, every restaurant.monospaced
    • It depresses me that anyone who's critical is labelled a crank.lukus_W
    • lol. Join the club, buddy. ;)monospaced
  • lukus_W0

    @emexbcn;

    Re: games consoles

    Recently Sony removed OtherOS support from the PS3 via a firmware update, to ensure that their games console remains closed (and unhackable).

    They've _removed_ a feature that some people based their initial purchase on.

    It's another example of consumer freedom being restricted to ensure their system remains closed. I think it's wrong.

  • monospaced0

    Exactly, emexbcn. The fact of the matter is that a few years ago Apple had a minority share of the PC market and neither the iPhone, the iTunes/App Stores nor the iPod existed. Apple took a fucking huge risk releasing an mp3 player into the market, and did it again into a saturated phone device market. EVERY SINGLE competitor out there has had plenty of time to improve on what Apple has achieved, and in many cases they have, but you simply cannot blame them for being successful.

  • lukus_W0

    I'm just trying to think how all this is going to play out in the future. What will the world be like in say, 30 years time, if we allow single corporations to have full control over a marketplace.

    I think it would lead to the world being far more shit than it already is.

    • Let's try it and see. I predict rainbows and unicorns.ukit
  • utopian0

    Both options suck monkey balls.

  • ernexbcn0

    lukus_W c'mon man you can't be serious, this is the same model as consoles and nothing has happened there:

    - The console manufacturer has to authorize you to sell games for their device
    - The console manufacturer gets a profit from each title sold by third parties
    - The console manufacturer has to approve you as a third party developer usually involving a significant amount of money in exchange for the software development kit

    And that business has been going on for quite some time without problems or anyone complaining about "alternate app stores available"

    • Is this why the PC market for games is the largest in the world?detritus
    • Those games pay plenty of royalties too. It's the system. It's not truly "open" when it's tied to hardware.monospaced
    • consoles is were the money's at right now detritus, PCs are only for MMOs these daysernexbcn
    • people havent complain because in game world there's an alternative: PC gamesspraycan
  • inhaler970

    I really have a hard time with people saying that they should get an ipod touch. It really shows their limit in thinking about the potential something like the ipad can present. Just in Publishing itself, nytimes, wsj, wired, making interactive subscriptions for their publications I think it truly lends itself to that medium.

    The ipad is truly that object between the tablet, the pc, and id even say the Ipod touch. If you want to read things or view video and the web on an Ipod touch screen, fine, go with it. But I don't want to squint and swipe my finger every three sentences to read an article or a book. Add audio and video to the equation, maybe some animation, it truly becomes dynamic media.

    As far as the money goes I believe people will pay a small fee, not too high, for subscriptions. On my iphone I pay about 6 bucks for 6 months worth of McSweeny's subscription, which include video. Dude, a DOLLAR A MONTH is nothing for some entertainment. This is the new economy.

    Criticize it all you want, it can be the technology of the future.

  • ernexbcn0

    You are free to buy an alternate product like the JooJoo Pad or the incoming HP Slate, or the sci-fi Microsoft Courier, or the upcoming tablets based on Google Chrome OS

    • How can the JooJoo pad ever compete with the might of Apple?lukus_W
    • How can _any_ small company compete with Apple?lukus_W
    • Easy. Create a better product. Think about this: not long ago, Apple was the underdog.monospaced
    • I don't care that's their fucking problem!ernexbcn
    • ^ my dodgy pike-metaphor x2 above still applies.lukus_W
  • lukus_W0

    "That's called good business."

    ^ But good business, if it's taken to its absolute extreme - is sometimes bad for the consumer. In the case of Apple's closed platform .. their 'good business' sense, leads to lack of freedom for us.

    Our lack of freedom might be a minor inconvenience now - BUT, in the future - when this computing paradigm is copied by other large corporations - it might become the standard for all computing devices. This would be an absolutely awful thing, imo.

    • This is hilarious. You keep saying that Apple is shit, but you think they already have a monopoly.monospaced
    • They released their product just a few hours ago.monospaced
    • I just think that there should alternate App Stores available - which aren't governed by Apple.lukus_W
    • They've been running this way all through the iPod and iPhones lifespans.lukus_W
    • I don't know why my PoV is so controversial .. this is what I mean about Apple producing an emotive response.lukus_W
    • I didn't say Apple are shit ;) jeezlukus_W
    • Wow. You just don't get it. It's not illegal to open an App store online. Nobody is being stopped from doing the same.monospaced
    • I'm potentially being stopped from selling Apps for the iPad though. I can only buy Apps from Apple.lukus_W
    • _Personally_ I think this is wrong.lukus_W
    • see comment belowmonospaced
  • monospaced0

    ^ "I'd say their current behaviour is anti-competitive."

    Apple isn't stopping anyone from creating their own tablets, software developer kits, and online app stores. The competition has just started, and they happen to be winning. That's the hear of competition, isn't it?

    • *heartmonospaced
    • If you have one very large pike in a pond - it's likely that the large, monster pike will consume all the tiddlers.lukus_W
    • Think about Microsoft and their anticompetitive web-browser case in the European courts.lukus_W
    • Hey man. Seriously. Apple is only releasing a product. It's not illegal. They have competitors.monospaced
    • We'll see...lukus_W
  • lukus_W0

    Apple are an amazing company - largely because they produce an emotive response in their users. They tap into something primal.

    This doesn't stop them from doing what all corporations do. For every enthusiastic, committed, UI and UX geek at Apple HQ -> there's another shrewd business person who's out to extract the last drop of profit from each line of products or services.

    • That's called good business.monospaced
    • At least the product quality/build is top notch. Custom chips, aluminum, great UI. They aren't compromising there.monospaced
  • detritus0

    "Now, Apple can get away with wringing Westerners dry for every last $5 app that jiggles tits or pretends to be a lightsabre."

    Oh - they banned the tit-jiggling software, didn't they?

    Well, there's your #1 piece of evidence against Apple's future hegemony right there - OS/OS won't put a dampener on porn consumption.. surely the prime driver for any new tech?

    :)

  • lukus_W0

    ^ "can you REALLY blame them?"

    I think I can. But it's not surprising that they choose to take the option which brings them the most cost.

    I reckon that corporations have gained in size so much - that if they're left to their own devices, they'd be able to do a lot of things that are solely in the interest of shareholders. I'd say this is wrong - BUT, it's unsurprising when profit is the main variable that counts.

    It's up to the government to introduce legislation that moderates their behaviour - because, unmoderated (regulated) behaviour leads to giant, enormous clusterfcks (like the current recession).

    We have laws that were introduced to protect the consumer in the industrialised aged (which made up the majority of the 20th century). Now we need laws that will do the same for the digital age (21st century).

    At the moment, most of the legislation that's being introduced is designed to moderate _OUR_ behaviour, and protect the interests of corporations. It needs to be the other way round.

    Unfortunately, lobbying is a force which holds an amazing amount of influence. So perhaps the first batch of legislation should make it more difficult for corporations to lobby government?

    • *brings them the most PROFITlukus_W
    • I genuinely believe one of Apple's main driving forces is to deliver quality product/experience, not just profit.monospaced
    • profits. Most companies would kill to have Apple's success, and their perfectly legal business model.monospaced
    • It's only legal because the issues haven't been discussed.. Apple are on a vanguard.lukus_W
    • They're not doing anything wrong. It's their product, they decide how they sell it. You are not forced to buy it.raf
  • detritus0

    Problem with handset tech is - it's necessarily small. Therefore, a lot more expensive to create a well-developed, high spec product that functions well, looks great and sits in the pocket.

    Tablets don't quite have that limitation - there's a lot more breathing room in development and production terms - hence, a number of smaller players in the game (JooJoo, for example) coming out with machines that are actually quite radical, if you step back and analyse them.

    Apple does software bloody well, no doubt. That's their trump card in this game. But they've been caught up. They're not the only draw in town showing off natural gesturative interfaces and neat interaction.

    So, what do they have left? Apps.

    Now, Apple can get away with wringing Westerners dry for every last $5 app that jiggles tits or pretends to be a lightsabre.

    Not so, the rest of the world.

    They'll want something that allows them to access cheap, free software, and the option to make stuff for it easily.

    Remember, tablets won't likely be a 2nd, 3rd or even 4th tier machine for your average global consumer - they'll be primary use. If I had an iPhone (aside from my three PCs and all the other tech), I wouldn't necessarily care that I couldn't do my own shit with it (well, i do - which is why I don't have one, but..) - but I would care if I felt I didn't have full access to my desktop.

    The App store was actually filled quite quickly (18 months or so?) - it'd be naive to suggest Android/Linux competitors won't achieve the same level of coverage, quicker, better, broader.

    Apple will probably always have a place, especially in middle-class heavy societies, and I admire them for striking out against Flash, but I really don't think they'll achieve quite the same critical mass with the 'pad as they did the 'phone, at least beyond the heavily edited front presented by Western Media.

    • Well said, although it's yet to be seen the tablet model takes over the worldukit
  • monospaced0

    "Government agencies should intervene if necessary"

    Department of Justice? Pretty funny man. Apple's done nothing illegal here.

    • I don't know enough about the US gov agencies to know which would apply - from the UK.lukus_W
    • I'd say their current behaviour is anti-competitive.lukus_W
    • i think the UK has stiffer anti-competitive laws then the US. it's a borderline monopoly with lots of outsrusty_ace
  • lukus_W0

    My main problem with this is the way the App Store functions as a closed platform.

    Apple decide who can trade - and their criteria is unknown. They have full control over the market. A small developer, making their living from selling a iPhone or iPad app, can be dumped tomorrow with no reason given. It's wrong, imo.

    In the short-term - if the closed model is going to exist - I think Apple should be forced to allow competing App Stores for all of their closed platforms. Government agencies should intervene if necessary (DoJ?).

    • I totally see your point. It's Apple's way of maintaining quality control. That being said, I'm really happy with the offerings in the Store.monospaced
    • offerings in the store. I can't wait to see how this develops.monospaced
    • Well, yeah - they'd say it's quality control - but it's also to do with profit. They are as greedy as any other corp.lukus_W
    • I hate to admit it - but I do kind of want an iPad .. but only if it's jailbroken.lukus_W
    • can you REALLY blame them?monospaced
    • (why should I have to be criminalised for wanting access to my own computing device?)lukus_W
    • Hahaha. What would you do if it was "jailbroken?"monospaced
    • I reckon it will be jailbroken - the main question is, will Apple ever do anything to brick devices which have been modified?lukus_W
  • monospaced0

    detritus: "just don't be too irritated when your more '1st gen' product is outmoded in no time at all but every other manufacturer's output."

    I'm not trying to start shit, but do you think this will really happen? Other manufacturers have had 2 years to top the underdog iPhone and are barely getting there. Before you know it a new iPhone will be out, and by the time someone makes a better tablet, Apple will no doubtedly have improved on it. Once again, just looking for a discussion, not a mud-slinging.

    • Apple do have a habit of leaving out a few key features in 1st gen products - maybe to increase take-up of 2nd gen?lukus_W
    • Maybe, but I think some features are left out to make others shine. The 9-12 hr battery life is my guess.monospaced
    • I don't think there's any doubt in Apple doing things which are a bit 'evil' .. they just have superb marketing.lukus_W
  • monospaced0

    While there may not be any "critical" reviews, the public opinion on the device is loud and clear. There is a ton of content out there bashing the device, its specs and the its vision, while others are praising it. Anyway, MacWorld reviews are surprisingly critical of its shortcomings and straightforward about its purpose. I guess what I'm trying to say is that, just like this thread, the coin can land either way. Even critical reviews will continue to have a bias toward or against the device.

    • The bottom line is what the user experience is like, which none of us have any idea of.ukit
  • detritus0

    Aye, lukus_w is on to something there - the iPad and its ilk is a potential saviour to traditional publishing business models, and with Mr. Murdoch himself gushing about the iPad, you can bet your bottom dollar that the message has come from ahigh that the 'iPad' is beyond overt criticism.

    So, go right on - buy the iPad, if you're a mac head you'd do it anyway - just don't be too irritated when your more '1st gen' product is outmoded in no time at all but every other manufacturer's output.

    Make no mistake - this is not the same battle the iPhone won.

    This tech has BIG potential (sorry, moth, I know you don't believe this) - it's the bridge between the internet haves and the internet have nots, not just in the West, not just in emerging markets, but long-term - everywhere.

    You wonder why Indian companies have a handful of tablet form-factor releases already?