Flash is not dead
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- clearThoughts
http://theflashblog.com/?p=1818
I reckon Apple are Shooting Themselves In The Foot?
With all the skilled Flash developers out there, it would be soooo easy to get stuff done for this type of tablet.
- SteveJobs0
i think Adobe's (read: Steve Jobs) intention is to train a generation of Cocoa developers who will be writing tomorrows OS X software.
Giving them an easy-out with AS3 could completely destroy any chance of this.
This isn't the business strategy they are communicating, but I promise, this is the intent. It's very clever and Microsoft should be afraid.
- SteveJobs0
And obviously HP has no such incentive for not supporting Flash. In fact, it's very lucrative for them to support it.
- lukus_W0
Of course theflashblog.com is going to say flash isn't dead.
- ernexbcn0
@clearThoughts so far the lack of Flash hasn't impaired Apple's ability of selling massive amounts of iPhones and iPod Touch, and you are right, Flash isn't dead but for some people isn't a must have
- but Android has caught up to the iPhone OS's market share ALREADY. think about that.zarkonite
- that's because 20 phones on 5 carriers, offer Android and 2 that use iOS. Also only the latest Androids can "run" flashrusty_ace
- so what? LOL.. that's why Apple sucks.. they are closed up. That's why Android kicks ass.Boz
- @rusty: I guess you weren't around in the 80s when this exact thing happened the first time...zarkonite
- DRIFTMONKEY0
- the fastest man dead!ernexbcn
- you guys can never take things seriously!clearThoughts
- welcome to qbn. people here are either procrastinating at work or off work. it's a place to get a way.pango
- clearThoughts0
Yeah - maybe flash could fade out a bit, but Adobe will come up with a similar platform to allow Flash developers to make apps for tablets.
What about this?
Adobe Air on a Dell Tablet- Flash CS5 is supposed to compile .ipa files that will run on iPhone OSernexbcn
- but they run like shit apparently, there are 4 games on the App Store developed with thaternexbcn
- and of those is mine.clearThoughts
- dbloc0
Flash will kill the iphone app sales, in turn no flash. He will allow flash to make apps because he is still getting a cut from it.
- clearThoughts0
BTW - not really post related, but I would like to add that Steve Balmer is a cunt
- Don't be prejudiced .. it's not fair to make fun of people just because they're in league with the devil.lukus_W
- http://www.youtube.c…vaxorcist
- SteveJobs0
to expound. if you want to be a microsoft developer, you're bound to be overwhelmed by the amount of resources available. A lot of people (particularly Mac users) blindly accuse MS of churning out crap across the board, but this isn't an accurate assessment. In fact, the one thing they do very well is make development easy for everyone through innovative tools and plentiful resources. This is evidenced by the crazy amount of windows applications available out there. freeware, shareware, commercial. toooons of libraries, components, open source, articles, you name it. This ironically, why you see so many security holes - it's less the OS's fault and more the success/pervasiveness of the OS itself (IMO).
In the Mac world, development has long been a black art. So few resources. Poor documentation/examples. But all that's changing. Soon Apple will catch up to MS, or at least come close if they can penetrate the business world. But for now, getting everyone on track by learning Cocoa is crucial, and largely why Adobe's getting left out in the cold.
- clearThoughts0
I can't be bothered to learn Cocoa, let alone Coffee or Tea
- ernexbcn0
well, Microsoft seems to like Apple's concept because they just announced that the only way to get apps on the upcoming Windows Phones is thru their own App Store.
Unlike Google Android that you can download apps from anywhere or from its own store too.
- lukus_W0
@SteveJobs;
I think your point about the difference between MS and Apple's development tools is very true - but I'm not sure if restricting Flash would be a very effective way of encouraging more developers to use Cocoa.
From what I can see, Cocoa is a set of objective-C APIs and libraries - whereas Flash has always been more accessible to people who come from a graphics background.
I don't think that the switch would be possible for all.
- Pupsipu0
a bit of a stretch to compare AS3 in Flash to Microsoft Desktop APIs and Cocoa. A fair comparison would be AS3 to JS or Silverlight.
There is simply no comparison on mobiles, JIT compiled or interpreted runtimes for JS and AS3 will not be able to do very much. Of course, most iPhone apps don't do very much so could be done more easily in JS/AS3 than Obj C 1.0.
Apple isn't stopping people from putting together JS iPhone apps as long as they're packaged a certain way, and there are lots of packagers around for that already. They appeared a few months after the iPhone did.
So the real problem here is Adobe. Flash is closed source so it has fewer developers than the JS world. The haXe to iPhone effort was the only attempt to get Flash iPhone apps to run outside of Adobe and it was hindered by the closed source player.
Adobe could have put together their iPhone exporter together a year ago. They could have had their mobile effort done a year ago, it just wasn't a priority, so now they're pretty late to the party.
- sure apple took the opportunity to introduce people to Obj C, but Android has its own weird API too, and Java.Pupsipu
- Pupsipu0
So why would you bother with AS3 and Flash, a closed source player made by one vendor, when this vendor takes over two years to port their runtime to mobiles properly?
This is while browsers are already ported and available on mobiles and need a few API updates to use all the phone's features?
- SteveJobs0
@ernexbcn - yes the iphone sdk is exceptional. they've learned from their mistakes with regards to OS development.
@lukus_W - yeaaaah, kind of. flash has been changing the last few years and it's not all about timelines and motion tweens any more. because of the extensive flash API, you can do something in as3 in a fraction of the time it would take to do it in Cocoa. And think about the number of flash apps out there that are dying to be ported to the iphone. that would be a huge win for adobe to say, "hey everyone, you don't need to learn Cocoa, just use our simple flash technology to pop out more of those games that are selling so well in our online store". all of a sudded, you're looking for the receipt to that $50 learning cocoa book you haven't cracked.
- Half the Flash games won't run fast enough in the new iPhone exporter, they need Cocoa anyway.Pupsipu
- and AS3 was out in 2006, a few years? The Flash community just doesn't need it. Most people who look to Flash can barely code a button.Pupsipu
- that can be remedied by adobe making their runtime faster.SteveJobs
- ..can barely code a buttonPupsipu
- Adobe already made the runtime faster, used GPU, it's still not good enough. You'd rather wait years for minor speed improvements or just do it in Cocoa?Pupsipu
- speed improvements or just do it in Cocoa? You see how much trouble browsers have with VMs? How slow Java is after 10+ years of VM work? It's not easy.Pupsipu
- 10+ years of VM work? It's not easy.Pupsipu
- hardware acceleration is only a small peice of it.SteveJobs
- no it's the biggest piece because it's for real time visuals, Flash people don't need fast math as much, not building renderersPupsipu
- building rendersPupsipu
- lukus_W0
@SteveJobs;
I know I keep harking on about this.. but put yourself in Apple's position.
They've found out how to make money from selling intellectual property, without much fear of piracy. And the system works. People accept it. The iPod and iPhone are proof - and the iPad is going to prove it a third time.
They will never ever ever EVER do anything to jeopardize this.
- Meeklo0
I reckon Apple are Shooting Themselves In The Foot?
With all the skilled Flash developers out there, it would be soooo easy to get stuff done for this type of tablet.Apple wants control of the application/ video/ music market, because it will mean more dollars for them. It's not about them not figuring out how to make it work, they don't want it to work.
and no, they are not shooting themselves in the foot.
Even with people everywhere bashing the iPad, you can bet your ass there will be a huge ass line at the apple store when it comes out.There is a new wave of apple users that got lured in to the brand thanks to the ipod's success, after the ipod they got the computer and then the phone, and now they developed a loyalty to the brand that goes beyond any actual needs.
The days of macs being targeted to graphic designers are long gone, people will buy it, cause its cheap and it has an apple logo in the back, so they can show it off, even if it doesn't do shit.
simple as that.
I do agree, flash is not dead.