Client Project Cancellation
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- whatthefunk0
Josev - that's an excellent point and I've learned my lessons from this one. Due to this project I've enlisted the help of a friend who's a PM and another who's a production artist to work on future freelance projects. Though upon further reflection I have to say that this client (and we all have them) has no idea what these website are about and one minute things are cool and the next they're a nightmare so idk - it's a case by case situation.
It's funny, I wish I had a boss I could go to and say "listen, this lady is freaking out and I don't know what to do" but in this case, I'm the boss. Live and learn and revise those contracts my friends, REVISE AND EXHAUST THE DETAILS OF YOUR CONTRACT AND GET EVERY FUCKING THING IN WRITING.
*note to self - make a consistent effort to become friends with attorneys who specialize in contracts
- Hate to say it, but if you've learned your lessons, then you are partly responsible here.luckyorphan
- fyoucher10
Now if we're talking about a few thousand bucks, then just move on. Don't waste your time. Your time is probably worth more. But, if it's something of significance then that's a different story.
She's using scare tactics. And it seems to be working. She signed a contract. If it clearly states what you say above and you've also followed contract terms then by all means collect, and collect everything you're entitled to. You make sure you clearly state that you are willing to finish the project or that she is terminating. Get everything going forward in writing and sent via confirmed mail. If she doesn't respond or refuses to pay, then you get YOUR lawyer involved. Hopefully it doesn't get to that but hey...this is EXACTLY what contracts are for, right?
- A good lawyer friend of mine once said, "Law is not about what is right. It's about what you can prove."luckyorphan
- Unless WTF can prove without a doubt that he was not in the wrong at all, then he should cough up the 33%.luckyorphan
- luckyorphan0
In the end, it's a simple calculation:
Which costs more...1/3 of deposit or your time in court?
- I feel for you, WTF.luckyorphan
- What about principal, doesn't this apply anymore?utopian
- < principal includes accepting partial responsibility for a job gone south.luckyorphan
- fair enough.utopian
- Josev0
Actually, lucky, it's not that simple. Both sides made mistakes, he delayed the project, she also delayed it with multiple changes. I don't have enough info to say who is more at fault. I also don't know what the budget was, but it sounds like her expectations were slightly of line. And there were apparently no timelines in the contract and she agreed to the terms. We should be able to expect things to happen in a timely manner, but if you're working with a freelancer you cant always assume their schedule is open and in line with yours. If you want that level of service you should go to an agency/larger shop. But then she'd be paying much higher prices. We just need to work harder at communicating during the course of the project.
I don't think it's fair to say he should just give in and walk away. The project sounds like it's more than 75% complete. Unless there's a lot more to the story it sounds like she's being a little unreasonable.
- Good point. I just sensed that WTF is accepting partial responsibility for the project going bad...luckyorphan
- ...therefore, by that admission, he shouldn't get full pay. From there, it's all about haggling the percentage.luckyorphan
- Unless I misunderstood the deposit is not the full amount of the project price.Josev
- whatthefunk0
I'm accepting partial responsibility for the project taking longer than anticipated but is that enough to warrant a contract void and cancel a project. I guess my question is would that hold up in court? The project is 80% complete and I've received a 50% deposit - is an extended project time line enough to justify canceling a project completely?
It's not like I've taken this client's deposit and then vanished off the face of the planet for the last 7 months. I have a record of hundreds of emails and a ton of phone calls- countless wireframe revisions, design revisions, etc. We never established a firm deadline, it was always based on each phase, and then those phases morphed and we never revised the contract. I feel guilty about having this drag on but it's not like I'm not working on it - is that enough to justify killing the project completely? idk
- boobs0
I think you should stick to your guns and not let her bully you. First, you have a written contract, and you've abided by your end. She's obligated to oblige at her end. So what the fuck is her lawyer going to say? Nothing. He's just going to bluff too.
- boobs0
You should point out that if she wants to cancel the project, she has to abide by the terms of the contract, and pay YOU off.
You hold the cards here. Contractually, you are in the right. Make her come to you with a proposal that you can live with, not what she wants.
- boobs0
Don't let your guilt over some small mistakes on your part tempt you to give up on the larger picture, which is that the contract is absolutely holy as written, and cannot be violated without due consideration.
- doesnotexist0
kill fee and any work you did- send to a collection agency if you need it paid
- monospaced0
What they said. Have her lawyer look at your contract.
MOST IMPORTANT, have YOUR lawyer do the same.
- Projectile0
basically, bottom line is this: have you gotten enough money for the time you've spent? if you're entitled to that money then grab it. if not then give it back and good might well come of it
- nosaj0
"If this is unacceptable to you, please let me know and my lawyer will be in touch with you."
That sounds like something said by someone who really isn't going to get their lawyer involved.
- Josev0
^ Yes
Anyone who has experience with a lawyer wouldn't throw it around so casually. Hiring a lawyer and taking someone to court should be the last resort. A judge would even ask that -- "did you try to,,,", they're busy people and don't like their time being fucked with. This woman would probably end up paying more in legal fees than she would get back from you.
And stop feeling guilty, nobody can schedule/manage their time that perfectly. Also, there are some people who just cant be pleased, maybe she's one of them.
- whatthefunk0
Thanks all -
I'm speaking to an attorney tomorrow afternoon to get a professional opinion on the situation. My position right now is that I want to keep the deposit, retain authorship credit, retain copyright on the design, and agree to her stipulation that I do not sell the design.
It bothers me that she has not offered to agree to any detail(s) within my contract, pardon me, our contract. It's curious that it's come to this and I appreciate all your comments.
- good luck
also, don't let anyone involved see this thread.monospaced
- good luck
- bigtrickagain0
keep us updated. i think more than one of us have knuckled under to clients in the past in these situations and we are all rooting for you.
- akrokdesign0
you got the 50% deposit.
you worked about 80% of the project.if it's now get cancelled. you shouldn't give any thing.
fair and square.
but not a smart move from the client as the work is almost done.
- Mimio0
I would look into changing the terms of your contract too. Give them ownership of the comprehensives.
- uhhhhhh...that makes no sense...they have paid 1/2 a deposit, and haven't paid for the workmonospaced
- upon successful completion of project, sure, makes sense.whatthefunk
- whatthefunk0
So I'm now going through all the 236 emails (total of sent and received) and putting together an outline including all dates and times of deliverables sent, approvals received, revisions requested, revisions sent, and timeline questions asked and answered.
I described the time line based on a 3 phrase approach - wireframe, design, and development. From the start I've presented the project completion date being dependent on final approval for each phase. I never gave a hard date for a deadline and with every inquiry I responded with a diplomatic "I'll have a better sense of the time line once we achieve final approval of the current phase."
Here's what I've found:
After 3 rounds of revisions it took the Client 3 months to finalize and approve the Top Navigation, Footer, and Sitemap.
It took the Designer 4 weeks to produce 4 design comps.
Took client one week to choose design direction based on comps.
Took Designer 2 weeks to produce a 10 page jpeg image map comp of final design direction.
Upon sending Design comp (4 months into project) I received an email asking for the entire site to be live by end of the month.
Took Client One month to send revisions based on Final Design Comp.5 months into the project we still haven't finalized the Design Comp of a website consisting of a CMS, eCommerce (8 unique departments), 50+ pages, integrated wordpress blog, and various dynamic Javascript galleries. Well into the 6th month I have emails stating that there is various content missing from her current website and she will get that to me.
Writing this post is helping me to formulate my response to her and her attorney. BRING IT ON!!! - I'm channeling my inner Clarence Darrow for this one!
- noneck0
Sounds like the client might be suddenly tight for cash, and is looking for the money back.
For fun you should make an infographic of the timeline you posted.