Fuck clients...
- Started
- Last post
- 52 Responses
- fuckclients
ive been working with this client for years, about seven to be exact. he's a good friend of mine who ive known for about eight years.
ive done so much fucking work for this guy for seven years. and ive always given him a nice chunky 50% discount on my hourly rates because i believe in him (hes a musician), and because were good buddies.
not anymore. i was working on a little side project for him that he kind of funneled through to me, and was sort of acting as the PM on. near the end of the job, it turned out the client wanted some extra stuff done, which required more hours than scoped originally. when i told him id have to charge more for the job because of that, and tack on about 6-7 more hours of dev time, he was like, "well i can cover it myself this time."
i do the work, things seem fine, i make a manual for the client showing them how to use the modules i spent all this time on for SHITTY FUCKING DOT NET NUKE CMS SITE THAT I HAD TO LEARN AND WILL NEVER IN MY LIFE USE AGAIN. i send the manual over to him to forward to the client and ask when he'll be sending me payment, lets say it was for $500. he replies saying "im sending you $100, but we're never doing business again. im so pissed off that you actually expected me to cover the difference on this." to which i responded "you wouldnt ask a lawyer to draft some extra paperwork you forgot to ask him to do, and then expect him to do it for free would you?"
he then responds, "dont expect to ever do business with me again." i was floored that he said this, and basically blew up on him, outlining exactly how much fucking word i had done for him over the years at half-off my normal rates, and how absolutely pissed off i was that he took this route. he then responds, "whatever, we're done doing business together." i was enraged, and still am, and basically responded, "no, we're done, both professionally and personally."
am i in the wrong? i feel like i did the right thing here, but at the same time, maybe i overreacted?
i have been reading qbn for years, and never posted. this prompted me to finally register and get some feedback on this.
- d_rek0
Mike?
- d_rek0
Dad?
- Amicus0
only if they are good looking
- airey0
yeah that sucks. sorry to hear. can't really take sides when we're only getting you're side of this but it sounds shitty. go for a walk and grab a coffee / beer and chill for a bit.
- BuddhaHat0
Once you get over the alpha-male confrontation bullshit you might be able to sort something out, but if you made the person aware of the additional charges in advance and have correspondence to prove it then you have grounds to chase up the money.
If you think it's well and truly over professionally and there's no way back then there's no point getting shitty over it, pull all the web data relating to the unpaid work (if you can), and tell them to piss off.
- + 1 on the alpha-male bullshit... It's how I lost my last job...ideaist
- Amicus0
The guy is a user. You are definitely not in the wrong.
- ideaist0
We're all in this together dude... Business is tough because people are often selfish... Friends are gained and lost by the dollar which scares the shit out of everyone except people like your friend who know where their priorities lie...
- Machuse0
sounds crazy, I feel for your pain here.
Even if you're wrong, which I cant see being the case. A friend should never have responded to you like that in the first place. And should be trying to make sure you get what you need.Shame, more liek fuck people or fuck fake friends, not exclusive to clients
- i agree. real friends you can count on one hand. this shit blows me away that he is being like this.fuckclients
- granted, he is a spoiled rich guy living on daddys dime.fuckclients
- fuckclients0
i have to be very honest here. i am not being deceitful about any of this. this is exactly what happened, no lies, no bullshitting, no exaggeration. im tempted to post the emails. it was definitely some blind-sided shit.
he fuckin removed me from his facebook friends. does that give you any idea of childish this is? i mean, really. he broke off our working relationship by email like a five year old twat. i called him yesterday, he could have relayed any of this to me then.
hes literally sending me $100 for about $700-850 worth of extra time/work i put into this project for him. thats a disrespectful slap in the face in my opinion.
- People still use face-book?ideaist
- Sorry; trying to inject humor... lighten up man... Been their...ideaist
- I re-joined QBN when I was laid off in January because I felt it was a community that dealt with similar shit...ideaist
- don't ash the check. take him to small claims courtTheBlueOne
- court seems so petty though. granted, $800 is nothing to scoff at, but still.fuckclients
- What is petty is how he is treating you. Now go fuck him up in court!fodcj
- robotron3k0
don't be a pussy. name and shame.
- Pupsipu0
50% discount rate for 8 years has the psychological effect of making those look like 100% full price rates.
- fuckclients0
from my "friend" :
"Personally, I’m not happy with you at all. It messed me up a bit when I offered to pay you out of my own pocket and you said “Okay, $825.00 for the additional 8 hours of work.” Damn, do you think I’m made out of money, that’s over a third of my pay check. I felt bad about the situation you're put in on this, but not that bad. When you said that, I thought, this guy isn’t my friend, no friend would say that shit. Maybe I never should have offered anything. I sent you 100 bucks. Take it how you want it, think I’m a liar, think whatever you want. The truth of the matter is that you and I should never engage in business again."
- ephix0
he's getting upset at you for expecting him to cover something, when it's actually him that expected you to cover the cost of the work. not good.
- fuckclients0
from me. granted, in retrospect, i might have gone a bit overboard, but my feelings were truly hurt by this:
"Offering to pay me out of pocket doesn't affect the fact that I put another 8-9 hours of development time into a project that was mismanaged and mishandled from the start by you.
You paid me out of your pocket only because this project was screwed up, and instead of taking it to your own boss, who is the financier for the job, you chose to hide the fact that the project was mismanaged. For what reason, I can't be sure. What I can be sure of though is the fact that on several occasions now I've done work for you for incredibly cheap. Cheaper than I would work for anyone else I know. I spent weeks developing your personal website for you, which you said *had* to be done, since you were working on two projects at the time, and you wanted the site done so that you could use it to promote those.
I went above and beyond what you paid me for, and never once did you try to get involved and finish that up. I put the site up, and that was it. You never again pursued finishing it off. I asked you when you were sending me the money for that. You said, "Check's in the mail." Three weeks later, nothing. When I asked you about it, you said, "My bad, I lied." Fuck that, and fuck you for even for one second thinking I'm trying to take advantage of you.
Since day one, I've given you discounts on my hourly rates for every project I've ever done -- 50% off man, and you know this, because you always thank me for it. Logo designs, business card layouts for your companies, given you fonts and graphics and things for free that I've paid out of pocket for. You've never once sent reputable business my way other than yourself (can you count on one hand how many failed projects youve sent my way? I can!), and I'm glad we're no longer working together. Don't for one second think that because you have a Mac and some pirated software that it makes you a professional designer and that you know my processes, or what I've invested into what I do. I own legitimate software versions of the entire Adobe CS4 Master Suite. I legitimately pay for fonts regularly. I belong to professional design associations. I subscribe to industry related magazines. I buy technical books, and learn new shit all the time. Don't ever fucking pretend that you can qualify my time, because you can't.
I'm sure the other guy you are talking to now will be able to get the new site done for you that you were talking about last week though. Again, your loss, considering what I know about that guy now. Same goes for the XXXXXXX site. All talk, no follow-up.
You think you're done wasting your time, that's fine. I'm now of the same opinion, based on how you've acted in the past on personal matters, as well as business matters.
If your intention was to only send me $100 from the start, you should have said so. Again, more deceit on your part.
You're right -- we're through doing business together. In addition, you probably shouldn't even bother contacting me again on a personal level either, considering the way you've acted over the course of the last four years, specifically, to me, and the way in which you've now completely disrespected my trade, and my level of passion for what I do.
I saw it coming a while ago, and I did my best to weather those changes I saw coming. You said something to the effect of, "I waste too much money on you sometimes." I knew what you were hinting at. What a crock of crap. I've stood by you through bullshit and through good times, and it really hurt me when you acted the way you did before, and it hurts me when you act this way now.
I should have known then, and I know now – finally – exactly the type of person you are.
Stay the fuck away from me."
- Write an email... save a draft... walk away for 30 minutes... breathe... and then have a 2nd go...ideaist
- yes bit over the top but good points there.ephix
- Ok. Um. Sending that was a bad decision.TheBlueOne
- Whoa.acrossthesea
- Heavy,bort
- lol I read the first 2 paragraphs and thought yeah thats alright... didnt see the rest lolFallowDeer
- Fuck that cunt, he's not your friend man, he's a fucking user, I've had a few...Ambushstudio
- Fuck me... sock it to him.fodcj
- TheBlueOne0
"Damn, do you think I’m made out of money, that’s over a third of my pay check. "
ENTER RESPONSE: No, but you obviously think that I am, since you wanted me to work for free. That's ALL of my paycheck.
- fuckclients0
you're all right. i should get a beer and chill, but fuck. this guy brings me about 65% of my business (yes, i keep exact track of this kind of shit).
its not just the work though. ive known this guy since college, and we're been through a lot together.
i want to chill, and get over it. but at the same time, this is going to hurt me financially hard, in addition to the fact one of my best friends is now written out of my life over $850....
- Gucci0
Wait... why wouldn't the end user pay the extra amount?
I think as a friend I'd feel like shit for having to get you to do the extra work, but I'm guessing you CHOSE to give the guy 50% off in previous years. That being said, as a friend, I think I might feel pinched to come out of pocket on something like this and would hope you would give me a break (not realizing the breaks I've received over the years because I've never seen an honest rate.)You've been too good to the guy for too long, I guess.
- fuckclients0
youre right about the one thing. the client should have to pay for the edits. but he specifically said, "ill cover the rest, dont sweat it." so i gave him a quote for the rest of the work -- 8 to 9 hours, and he said "cool, same as usual?" and i of course said yes. doesnt that imply he is on board? he clearly wanted to get this business for himself no matter what, which is why he wanted to get me to do the final edits, no matter what.
so actually, i just realized, it was probably his intent from the very start to do this. i know hes already working with a different designer -- lord knows why, the stuff i do for him is great in my opinion -- but now that i think about it, it seems like this was his intent from the start....
- Amicus0
You might just have caught the break you've been needing. If you do 65% of your work at 50% of your rate you are losing an awful lot of money.
Take this as a positive and use the free time you have to find some better clients, or update your folio, website etc. Invest in your personal brand a little and you should be able to find yourself in a much better place in 12 months.
:)
- fuckclients0
youre right amicus. i hadnt really put it in that perspective. ive been losing money for seven years!
i need to get a portfolio going too, its been two years since ive even considered one, since ive been too fuckin busy to invest the time into one.