Nazis etc
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- raf0
I had school in Europe, mu childhood was full of Nazi depictions. And I can't disagree enough with you pascii.
People have short memory. It is why they don't learn and forget very simple things, like "stock and property market don't go up forever" and then lose their savings when markets go down - just what we saw recently.
As cannonball said, Stalin murdered many more than Nazis ever did - who remembers that now? Does anyone know today that Lenin actually was more cruel and made a bigger disaster?
Were there as many movies on communism as there were on Nazis? Not even close.Communism was officially killed off in Europe 20 years ago, some 45 years after Nazis were defeated. Still, it is ok to display commie symbols and express support for the idea, while someone holding a Nazi flag is obviously a "baddie".
What George Santayana said:
"Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it."- Not to mention the Balkans and other more recent mass-slaughters.Corvo2
- ukit0
Although I am not under 20, I am pretty sure their perception of Nazis is pretty much the same as our generation. Although my grandfather was in WWII, he never saw combat, so I assume he never met a Nazi in real life. Also, popular culture is filled with depictions of Nazis (Indiana Jones, new Tom Cruise film etc).
- PonyBoy0
watched this film this morning actually...
And to answer your question about 20 and under folks...
...yes and no.
:)
It all depends on what part of the world you live in and your parents political / educational views...
- ismith0
Both my grandparents saw combat in WWII.
- And I am under 20.ismith
- wow...shuts me the fuck up then :)....mikotondria3
- pascii0
to know about the future, you must understand the past. definately. but aren't there enough examples of madmen ruining the life of millions of people out there right now? why do we always drag the bad german in the flashlight?
- just look at the youngest history. evil hasen't a face like it had back in the days...pascii
- monNom0
do they make movies about wars other than WWII?
there were a few about vietnam, but they were more or less a rationalization of and delivery mecanism for CCR
- ukit0
Anyway, the ideology lives on
- they just like the leather and jackbootsmonNom
- yeh, sometimes I waste a whoe day arguing with fuckers like this.mikotondria3
- airey0
what amazes me is that if you started to be interested in any of the tennents included in that thread, surely you'd think "wow, i'm a little unhinged" when you start reading a fucking nazi.whatever website for info yeah? interest in ideologies is one thing but fucking nazis are nazis?!? surely?! anyone?
- Pupsipu0
I watch a shitload of history channel and can't say I have a clear understanding of what the fuck people in Germany were thinking. A lot of the movies and even documentaries about the Nazis are simplistic and one sided, with this assumption that Nazis were evil human beings.
- ukit0
What is interesting is that in historical terms someone like Hitler is actually par for the course in terms of leading a country - militarize society, aggressive invasion of your neighbors, enslave and kill off racial minorities. Think about someone like Alexander the Great, who was about a million times worse than Hitler.
It's only set against the backdrop of modern history that Hitler and Nazism seem evil and abnormal, not that they shouldn't be viewed that way.
- mikotondria30
exactly my point, pupsipu - or rather, it exposes the thinking behind my point - I'm old enough now that I pretty much think I know people. I know not to be too surprised by their kindness, their tenacity, their stupidity, or their ability to be mean to one another - and naturally I am learning not to be surprised by my abilities to do all these things either. Nonetheless, I've got a fairly accurate notion of how people behave under what circumstances - It is important that we weave the nazi 'experience' into the history and the present of our culture, because the moment it is 'forgotten', it is more likely to be repeated..
- exador10
I'm mixed...dad is Canadian, mom is from Germany...
I'm 37 yrs old, and have grandparents that fought on either side of the equation...
both are awesome guys...
my Opa in germany is truly an amazing guy...
he was an officer in the german army (used to fire the anti aircraft guns) and a lot of folks may not know this, but once you were in the army, if you rose to officer level, you were automatically inducted/name entered into the nazi party.....
i guess it'd be like, if you were in the army in the U.S., if you became an officer, you suddenly had to be a republican....that sort of thing....anyhow, so yeah....he was a nazi officer....
he and a few friends devised a system of speeding up the loading and firing of the antiaircraft cannons, and it was so succesful, the army paid them for it, and sent them around teaching it to all the other battalions ....
towards the end of the war, as the fronts were starting to push into germany, he took all his men up into the mountains and said basically 'ok...we are FUCKED....we're not going to win this one....it's over....and (he pointed) 'that' way is switzerland...so get the fuck out of here before you all get killed.then, once his men were safely running away, he walked down the mountain himself..but unfortuantely in the wrong direction it seems...
he ran right into an american division...he spent the next year and a half or so in a Yankee POW camp....my Oma and my mom on the other hand, survived (barely, and luckily) the fire bombing of Dresden....
there are some very amazing stories in my family about the war, but mainly the ones from germany...
and the post-war ones are just as good...:)
ex
- airey0
read 'slaughterhouse 5'. kurt was a survivor of the dresden firebombing as a pow. the book pulls from his actual experience.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sla…
- nocomply0
I wrote a paper in 2004 during my senior year of college that I think you might find interesting. It's examines the morality of German soldiers and the banality of evil that was prevalent among Germans during WWII.
I haven't looked at it since I turned it in, but I have thought about it from time to time. I'm pretty sure I got an A in the class. I figured I might as well post it here:
http://www.designedbyevan.com/HI…As for your questions, I think your raise an interesting point. It's something that I've begun to consider as I get older. I come from a Holocaust surviving family so I'm a bit of an exception, but I think like anything given enough time, it sort of fades from a society's collective memory. Sad to say.
- airey0
anyone else seen the Curb Your Enthusiasm episode with the 'survivors'? hilarious.
- cannonball0
I find it interesting that generations of germans have disappeared under the waves of history still tacked with the dehumanized stigma you're describing.
A large portion of German at the time were not Nazis, and a large portion of the Nazis were in all likelihood human beings that were caught up and dragged along in the zealotry
History remembers WW2 as the last war when there was a certain good and evil side, but history is also written by the survivors of war.
I mean, Stalin killed just as many people or more systematically, (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hol…) but people get indignant about nazis because they're easier to point to as a brand. A result of not wanting to think and just be indignant IMHO.
- raf0
I think we have to remember or stuff will be rerun. Today's actual dangerous madmen are not commonly recognized because people don't know patterns from the past that are being replayed in front of them.
Among things to be learned from Nazi era is "democracy is a dangerous thing". Could you agree with it, remembering how Hitler came to power? But just try quoting that very sentence to anyone: "Democracy is a dangerous thing" - they'll think you're not feeling ok today."evil hasen't a face like it had back in the days..."
I presume you don't mean neither the phenomenal US presidential campaign propaganda Goebbels would be proud of nor the Orwellian European empire emerging at your Swiss footsteps as we speak?
They both scare me and everyone around thinks they're the bright new future."why do we always drag the bad german in the flashlight?"
It is a good question. I think Hitler's damages were extremely widespread, applied to all of Western culture and those who were hurt are better at getting themselves together and keeping the memory alive. As opposed to, say, Ukrainians whom 10 000 000 were starved to death by Stalin in one season. Part of history which rarely anybody in the West even heard of.
- robotron3k0
I have got Nazi burnout, seems like they appear in every major movie and those movies usually win every major movie award. now when I see or hear the word Nazi I think of Jews and when I hear or see the word Jews I think of Nazis. it was a horrible event but the whole thing seems to keep replaying for 60 years, over and over again so that the Nazi/Jews are permanently associated with one another. Im glad I don't have the history channel any longer...
