Taxes on Rich People?
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- Not_Just_Another0
the more you tax rich people the more they're likely to pay themselves to make up the difference. Imagine you were on 200k, and you had to pay a huge amount of tax, if you were a business owner, what's to stop you paying yourself 250k and making up the difference? If they do that, there's less money to pay employees and the gap between those with and those without will continue to grow.
My solution would be to tax fairly - a flat rate - so that there wouldn't be a greed to pay yourself more just so that you feel you're getting what you deserved.
Increase the Tax-Free amount to help out the bottom end, but increase slightly the flat amount. That way, no one can complain!
- gah, I should have gone into politics.. ah wellNot_Just_Another
- +1baseline_shift
- Beach8oy20
The super rich in the UK avoid paying tax to the tune of £25bn. It's all about greed. Sir Phillip Green paid his wife a dividend of £1,2bn and she paid no tax on it because she is domiciled in Monaco, although his primary business's are here in the UK.
U2 shifted their Tax liability to Holland, because of the lower rate of tax - but the band still has homes in Ireland and use the infrastructure of tax paying irish folk.
Denmark has the fairest tax system, and the culture there is one where super success is frowned upon. And low and behold - they have the lowest rates of depression in the world. (Source: Oliver James - Affluenza)
Also read Robert Peston's "Who runs Britain" - he explains to some length how the super-rich go to some lengths to avoid paying tax and how Brown has changed tax law to support them. The gap between the rich and poor is at it's widest in the UK since the turn of the last century!
A fair system can be reached - as long as we don't have a corrupt, money/business hungry government.
- although if U2 left that would leave guinness as ireland's only resource.airey
- http://www.oecd.org/…akrokdesign
- Fair = highest = equal distribution of wealth = shortest gap between rich and poorBeach8oy2
- Guinness belongs to Diageo (UK company) and U2 still generate more tax for Ireland than most other people.raf
- Just picture the tax on concert tickets, CDs and touristic revenue associated.raf
- Artists were exempt of tax until a few years ago. U2 would have to be idiots to go from paying 0% to 41%raf
- Meeklo0
"A fair system can be reached - as long as we don't have a corrupt, money/business hungry government."
so you are saying it can NOT be reached then...
- +5airey
- Not with the government system we have in place - noBeach8oy2
- or the population we have in place.airey
- in what respect?Beach8oy2
- a govt is made up of the same people that make society. if business and govt are corrupt...airey
- ...the so is society. big business and govt don't suddenly appear from a different gene pool.airey
- to think otherwise is insane and naive. optimistic, which is good but not reality based.airey
- But to shorten the gap between rich and poor doesn't need a shift in the gene pool...Beach8oy2
- Just a fairer tax systemBeach8oy2
- it's more than tax making the gap i'm sorry to say.airey
- no - but it is the biggest contributorBeach8oy2
- Meeklo0
If you are rich, and don't want to pay more taxes, move to montecarlo with the rest of no taxing paying rich people
- nope. if you're an immigrant in montecarlo you pay massive tax. locals none. it's a fee for mixing with the rich.airey
- although if you're retiring rich there you'd be made a local in 2 seconds flat.airey
- I was talking about the country with 84% foreign population, not sure which montecarlo you were thinkingMeeklo
- hahaha. no i mean that people running business outside the place and not nationals pay 33% flat.airey
- unless you run a business inside to nationals you get hammered.airey
- bjorn borg (the tennis player) wrote him self as living in monte carloakrokdesign
- same with the band roxette.akrokdesign
- but, the owner of ikea. i think he hasn't gone that way.akrokdesign
- roxette! fantastic. i wonder if she's on the game there now?airey
- ********0
fuck you
- hate the game not the player. he 'aint the first bullshit artist, just probably the biggest.airey
- so in those terms he's actually a role model. of sorts.airey
- You're talking bollocksbabaganush
- +1 babaganush********
- I hate the game, and I hate the player. I am full of hate. Wakes me up in the morning.TheBlueOne
- DrBombay0
There is a ton of bullshit going on in this thread. here is how it actually works:
When you tax these so-called "wealth creators" higher they have a tendency to buy more equipment etc for their businesses, so they are not taxed on that money at the end of the year. Think about it, many of you do the same thing as freelancers. So by doing that, you are spending more money thus stimulating the economy.
I wish people just had the balls to say, I don't want to pay anymore taxes than I currently do because I want more money and don't give a shit about anyone else' situation. I could respect that.To frame this any other way is dishonest.
- we could cut taxes if we stopped the whole public roads, infrastructure and communications.airey
- anyone keen?airey
- do it, horse and buggies, rickshaws and shit.DrBombay
- privately owned jet packs. 'nuff said.airey
- helicopter, baby. jet's are cheap, compared.akrokdesign
- I don't need to say it, I moved from Quebec to Alberta. 'nuff said.zarkonite
- akrokdesign0
one of an other way. the shit needs to get payed. (see my invoice) lol.
- raf0
You're mixing company income with company owner's income. It's the business that will not get taxed on what's reinvested, not the individual.
The owner will have to take more of his company money in order to pay his increased personal income tax - this means no raise for the employees. Sorry that's "social justice" biting the poor in the ass.High taxation slows down the economy. It repels investors. It takes away the will to be productive.
When you're get extra freelance offers and you know you're in 41% tax bracket (plus Social Tax!) you know the fuckers will rob you of half of your income. You're not so keen to take on the work at all anymore. You can imagine this is what drives the rich to seek tax havens and other solutions. Leave the tax on a reasonable level and they will just pay it rather than take the hassle to do such things.What do you want higher taxes for anyway? Doesn't the government rip you off already? They will waste whatever money they get anyway.
US government just gave away trillions to banks just like that - does that not teach you anything?Don't people realize? Governments don't create jobs, rich people do. Governments create unemployment through high taxation.
"The power to tax involves the power to destroy"
John Marshall (1755 - 1835)
- formed0
I understand the arguments - tax the rich stifles growth, gov't wastes money on everything, etc., etc.
There is validity to both sides of the argument (I can't stand the typical dem/rep rhetoric that it is one or the other).
If I pay more taxes, then sure, I'll spend less (both on my company and myself). But I also pay a ton in health insurance, which I don't think anyone should have to do (within limits).
Also, what is "rich"? People making 250k a year are doing nicely, but nothing compared to someone making 10mill a year.
There should be a better break down at the top and a better definition of what is "rich". The tax brackets setup now are not exactly fair.
raf - who pays 41%?
- ribit0
tax rate is 40% over £34,800 in UK
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/rates/it.…
- kezza_20
tax avoidance is immoral.
How you can run companies in the UK or wherever but choose to not pay tax, by having a fax machine in the cayman islands is ridiculous. If everyone agreed to outlaw tax havens the world would be better off.
Remember that wealth creators might create jobs which is true, but at the same time taking wealth out of the country is silly. For fucksake being worth a billion is great enough, paying a couple of hundred million in tax isnt going to stop you buying a learjet is it.
That said I fear a growing state, the government would only plough it into the pensions shortfall they created. We have to sort out how government spend money before they start collecting shit loads more.
personal taxation should go down too, I paid over £30k in tax last year, but hey, I dont see the money being spent well at all. there are too many loopholes with tax, to many people on benefits to stop the money being spent properly.
need to stop reading the daily mail
- utopian0
Fuck it! I am off to work so that my taxes can pay for the wars in both Iraq and Afghanistan, bailing out Wall Street and all of those greedy fucking banks as well as corporate America and their tax-free shelters off shore. Fuck America the land of the greed, we deserve everything that lands at our doorstep.
- kezza_20
fact is the poor want greater wealth distribution, but the wealthy want to keep the fruits of their hard work.
who knows what the answer is
- formed0
ouch
- formed0
"Greed, for lack of a better word, is good"
classic
- raf0
@formed
In Ireland, so famous for low corporate taxes, personal income tax brackets are as follows:€0 - €18300 -> 0%
(for self-employed: €0 - €9150 -> 0%)€18300 - €36400 -> 20%
(for self-employed: €9150 - €36400 -> 20%)above €36400 -> 41%
This means, you don't pay the tax on the first €9150. If you are employed (as opposed to ie. self employed), you don't pay tax on another €9150. It is a gigantic tax credit for the low earners.
There is still a social tax, which is quite low in Ireland in comparison with the rest of Europe (5-6%).
However, the government just added a new 1% levy on everyone, increased VAT to 21.5% (it was already one of the highest in Europe) and increased a bunch of other taxes (petrol, wine, cigarettes, etc.).
On the same day, the UK lowered their VAT from 17% to 15%. The result? The Irish shop online in the UK or directly at the Northern border, rather than in the Republic. Irish retail just got stung dramatically.
The government strangled the economy and will wake up with a bigger hole in the budget than expected before they increased the taxes.
- lowimpakt0
the irish economy is more complicated than that and putting it forward as a good long term sustainable model is wrong considering the reality.
"Governments don't create jobs, rich people do.."
again, this is misunderstanding of the reality of market economies. "rich people" don't operate in a vacuum and require systems within which they can operate. i.e. legal systems, security systems, education systems, health systems, social systems etc etc .all those things that "rich people" depend on but don't provide. Also, "rich people" don't come from thin air - they are nurtured, financially supported and subsidised to richness.
A big issue I am interested in is the relation between the provision of public goods, market/systems failure and models of innovation and economic development..(not to sound like a dick but I'm doing my PhD on innovation systems and government intervention)
- KwesiJ0
where'd this myth that the rich work hard come from?
- ********0
The rich pay 98% of taxes.
- aw hell I made that up********
- Bullshit.boobs
- on planet pluto...oh wait, its gone. :-)akrokdesign
- aw hell I made that up
- baseline_shift0
Flat Tax FTW.
Nobody feels cheated. The rich lose tax shelters and write offs, so the govt would generate the same amount, or more money. People could do their taxes in their sleep. AND (drum roll please) No more IRS!