non-compete clause
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- zenmasterfoo
I'm working with a client to design their company's new corporate site. They recently reorganized and have thrust upon me a new subcontractor agreement the has attached to it a non-compete clause restricting work, directly or indirectly, with any possible competition of theirs during our contract and following 1 year after termination of our contract.
I've entered agreements before, but not this strict. I hope to push back on them, but I was wondering if anyone has ideas otherwise.
- OSFA0
do these things really ever work?
- not for fulltime hires in worker friendly states.zenmasterfoo
- robotron3k0
pretty normal if you want their bling.
- PonyBoy0
this is just contract work?...
... i say no unless the cash was enough to sustain you for a year...
... anytime someone has tried to tell me what I can and cannot work on if I'm going to work for them... I usually don't work for them.
- that tends to be my argument as well. Especially in this climate, restrictions like this are overboard.zenmasterfoo
- e-pill0
i never sign a non compete clause, you dont have to either.
- harlequino0
I've been told it's pretty unenforceable, especially if you are a freelancer. But oyu might want to have a sit down with HR or whomever and talk in great detail.
- yeah. I think pushing back on this is a good idea. happily I have a great relationship with this client.zenmasterfoo
- and just be ready to walk away.robotron3k
- sykosis0
i've had to do this for a few capture companies. In the end I usually keep the clients of my client on file. If I am approached later about a job I will not turn it down. I've had people try to come after me or discredit my name... but I just keep doing me and my clients seem happy.
- babaganush0
How much work are you doing for them?
- substanial amount. It's why I won't get aggressive about pushing back on this, but I still have issue with any clause that halts me from finding client work.zenmasterfoo
- halts me from finding client work.zenmasterfoo
- jamble0
Charge them a years worth of additional costs and claim everyone you may work for next year would be a direct competitor.
- monospaced0
nobody here can really give you accurate advice without knowing what kind of company this is
if they're unique, and big enough, chances are you won't have an opportunity to work with their competitors within the next year anyways.
- babaganush0
Just be straight up. If you know them, say they can trust you won't actively try to poach a client but unless they're paying you as some highly paid exec. A 1 years no-compete clause is too restrictive.
- robotron3k0
Just sign it and don't be so literal about the document. they just don't want you to take their branding and corporate guideline files and use them for your own work or clients. and if you do happen to "borrow" their files because you think the work is great, just don't be obvious about it, the same goes for getting new clients, keep it on the DL.
- Also have a client trying to bring me on board to NYC fulltime. Tempting...zenmasterfoo
- eryx0
That is insane! "any possible competition" give them too much power. It is like saying to a carpenter that he / she can't build a house for anyone else while working on yours and following a year afterwords.
That being said if they do give you one full years pay as compensation to not seek work elsewhere than I would say it is worth it. But the way it is written here you can't make an independent living, they should be making you an employee at this point.
- fuck it, sign it. live a little.robotron3k
- In that case I have a great contract for you to sign.eryx
- OSFA0
A friend of mine was given one of those as a fulltime, stating he could not touch their clients, and not work on the field for a year after termination/resignation. How can somebody tell you not to do what you do to make a living? How is that legal? Fuck that!
I understand the point about not taking their clients, but everything else? Is he supposed to become a florist for a year?
- it's common for fulltime hires. I have one at my fulltime gig. no one cares about it.zenmasterfoo
- this is why i never sign that crap.e-pill
- how can they sue you or take you to court for working? This is fucking absurd!OSFA
- depends on the state you live in. some are worker friendly some favor corps..zenmasterfoo
- if no one care why do we have these agreements?eryx
- TResudek0
Those forms always strike me as paperwork which comes from some abstract directive. The person you work for directly doesn't care. The person they work for doesn't care. The person one level about that might care but he/she has no idea who you are and probably doesn't even know what projects his/her company are even working on.
It isn't right to steal clients but paperwork shouldn't get in the way of work.
- zenmasterfoo0
I'm almost absolutely certain the source of the contract is the legal department for this company. I know the PM doesn't want it to get in the way of our relationship. It's why I think signing it is ok, but I do intend to make my concerns known, even if it's just for the record.
- dont sign it...e-pill
- hehehe...waiting for chants of "JUMP!" and "DONT JUMP!" all at the same time.zenmasterfoo
- vaxorcist0
in California, non-competes are usually illegal. Courts have ruled in other states that agreements that "impede the ability to make a living" are not enforceable.
In some startups, these agreements are demanded by the funders, who may come from completely different industries, and have different expectations... but this may indicate disrespect for designers and they may think you're disposable, a very bad thing...
I have no problem signing an NDA, a non-disclosure agreement, but a non-compete is the first part of a slippery slope of being asked to agree with things you don't agree with or understand, not a good way to do business... paperwork is not just paperwork, I once found out the hard way.....
- Scotch_Roman0
I agree, vaxorcist. NDAs are OK from time to time—I had to sign one at my last job for a particular project, and I've kept my word thus far (despite the fact that I'm quite proud of my work on said project), but non-disclosures can severely hamper a designer's ability to get work.
- uberdesigner0
these rarely hold up in court. the problem is you have to pay legal fees.
- Whether they're legally binding or not, as a general rule you shouldn't ever sign something that you don't agree to, or aren't willing to abide by.monNom
- 5timuli0
I got this one:
Be employed by or go into business in any field which is in direct competition with [COMPANY], including starting Employee's own company which would act as a competitor of [COMPANY], either during the employment hereunder or for a period of two (2) years following the termination of such employment, notwithstanding the cause or reason for termination.
Still haven't signed it. Feel I can trust my employer now but it still seems kinda serious.
- Agree to it provided they pay 2 years salary as severance at the end of your employment. See if they still want it that bad.monNom
- Otherwise, do not give your rights away. You are giving up something very valuable. You could work there 1 week and still have to abide by that contract.monNom
- And you could have to pass on the chance of a lifetime because you signed a non-compete and didn't even get compensated for it.monNom
- vaxorcist0
and if the company goes bankrupt or lays you off, you cannot work for anyone they claim to be in "direct competition"..... I'd fight for a company bankrupcy clause and ask them to list the competition you specifically cannot work for... You may be able to trust your employer now, but if they get bought, or your manager leaves?!?